19yo with ADHD cannot be organised enough to hold down a job

[GreyBlackBay]

This is my friend's son. She was just telling me about the situation and its awful.

He got DLA as a child but turned down for PIP twice. Did, I think, a public services course at college and managed fine because my friend did all the reminders, getting him out of bed and driving him there when he missed the bus, etc.

Their relationship started to deteriorate at 18 (friend struggling with his mess and general entitlement) and he moved into a shared house with friends about a year ago. Their relationship has improved a little.

Since college he's had a series of minimum wage jobs, bar work, supermarket, warehouse etc. He gets into trouble for never being on time or not turning up at all and gets fired or leaves.

Friend is really worried, he's sensible with money in general and has used his savings and then child trust fund to plug gaps but now has nothing. He applied for JSA and got it but kept getting sanctions(?) for not keeping appointments, attending interviews, etc. She thinks he's not getting anything right now but he's been promised some bar work over Christmas.

She doesn't really want him home and he does not want to move home so that's unlikely to happen unless desperate.

What is supposed to happen in this situation? Should JSA have more relaxed rules because of his adhd? Should employers have to adjust work to his lack of time keeping? Should he be getting PIP? Worth noting he's refusing to apply for PIP again.

He's perfectly capable of working and is willing, he performed best at the warehouse where tasks were sequential and well defined but he found it depressing.

I'm asking here because I think this sounds like the type of situation that is becoming more common. I'm aware of several friends, neighbours and colleagues who's adult children aren't able to hold down a job and I don't really know what is supposed to happen here.

Thanks for any advice, if I can pass it on without looking overly nosey I will.

He needs to try meds or an alexa/Google home type thing to keep track of reminders and habit stack etc

It’s a tough one because essentially once in the workplace there are adjustments that can be made, for example more frequent breaks, quiet workspace, written instructions, allowing more time etc, but at a very basic level he has to take responsibility for the time keeping aspect initially. Whether that looks like a physical checklist, setting alarms or reminders on his phone/laptop to do things, being aware of the difficulty to self-monitor things in that way and so putting in place measures to prompt him. These are things he needs to do himself though.

Is he on medication for ADHD?
If not then that's the first step.

The PIP process is extremely stressful and also long.

It wouldn't be easy for an able bodied adult and for someone with adhd it's damn near impossible.

I have severe disability following an accident and my god the questions. The form itself has free text answers but if you don't address the answers they want (can you dress your self, can you wash yourself etc) you don't get points.

I filled mine in like an application form:

I can't walk far (evidence: blue badge, this doctors letter that doctors letter, hospital notes from operation s etc).

Etc etc.

Then I had an hour and half grilling over the phone. I have chronic pain and take a lot of meds, and sometimes I forget,

How often do you forget your meds? How many times in a year? How many times in a week? What about your other meds, is that different?

Jesus.

I was wrung out by the end.

I told the woman, if I'd known you were going to ask how often I fall over/forget my meds/whatever I'd have kept a bloody tally!

I don't blame him for not wanting to apply for PIP.

Nonetheless, the working and benefits system is not set up for people with ADHD.

You are expected to turn up in time etc etc or you lose your job.

He could try speaking to a charity that gives advice on this who might be able to help with the PIP form.

PIP isn't really designed for people with mild developmental disorders, it's for people with serious, debilitating conditions. This could be ADHD if it's leading to him being completely unable to care for himself safely, but that doesn't sound like the case.

Unfortunately, as someone with ADHD who has a pretty poor track record of holding down jobs, the only solution is for him to improve and, in the meantime, work on getting a qualification in something likely to be more flexible.

First step would be to get on meds- they aren't a lot of fun to take and have side effects but they do work and he's at the point where he needs to make a quick change to survive. Then he needs strategies- whether that's apps on his phone, paper diaries, a buddy to cajole him along- to help him organise himself. And anything that works will only work for a while so he'll need to be agile enough to switch strategies when one stops working.

What absolute dross.

People who are able to work get pip.

Also ADHD isn't a mild developmental disorder. It's a neurological difference. People with ADHD develop at the usual rates. Perhaps you shouldn't comment on something you know nothing about.

I have ADHD, have brought up a child with ADHD, and have studied ADHD. People with ADHD are typically 4-5 years behind in several areas. It sounds like it's you who needs to educate yourself.

People who are able to work get PIP yes, but the criteria are very high. Being disorganised is not going to qualify him for PIP.

No NMW job is going to make accommodations which allow him to come in whenever he feels like. That would not be classed as a reasonable adjustment.

Note the very first line, ADHD is a developmental disorder.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd#:~:text=Attention%2Ddeficit%2Fhyperactivity%20disorder%20(,interfere%20with%20functioning%20or%20development.

@No33 "People with ADHD develop at the usual rates. "

No they don't. You are correct in that ADHD isn't a MILD developmental disorder. It can be extremely debilitating as the OPs son is experiencing. It's IS however a neurodevelopmental disorder that causes developmental delay. ADHDers are typically about 30% behind where they should be in the areas of difficulty.

I recognise you're not replying specifically to me but I wanted to clarify that my original comment did say that ADHD COULD be severe enough to qualify for PIP or COULD be mild depending on the person.

In this case, it sounds like the son is independent, good with money, able to get a job, and the only issues highlighted are some difficulties in his relationships (at least with his Mum) and poor time-keeping/ scheduling. I don't think that will qualify him for PIP and it would be classed as mild when compared with many people with ADHD who are in prison, in mountains of debt or homeless due to poor impulse control and emotional regulation, for example.

I've been in a not dissimilar situation myself when I was struggling to hold down a job due to ADHD and found there was not really any sort of financial support available for me and my only option was to really work hard on improving in the areas which were holding me back and work towards a role with flexi-time.

Is he on meds? I know a lot of people with ADHD stop taking meds as they enter adulthood but my understanding is that it's better to consider alternative versions - eg DS's doctor has suggested that DS might switch to short term, ad hoc meds vs his all day versiosn he takes now when he becomes an adult.

The other thing, and I apprecite this is easy to say, harder to do, a job that suits his preferences will allow him to manage his adhd a lot better. So, for example, if like DS and DH he's the classic night owel ADHDer, bar work definitely sounds like a better idea and anything that's more evening/night time based generally. The reality is that it's hard fore veryone to motivate themselves when it's something we don't enjoy or don't want to do and it's x100 for people with ADHD so jobs that are ore interesting to him are better. DS loves to be moving and active so is thinking of jobs that involve doing that from sports coach to police - he knows that spending all day in an office or a single (small) space will NOT work for him even though he quite likes the idea of physiotherapy or similar.

Thank you all for your replies.

In terms of meds I know he tried to find something that worked for several years whilst in high school but the ones that worked affected his mood, going from random bursts of crying to longer term depression to suicidal thoughts. He also lost huge amounts of weight. They stopped it there and he got through school relatively well with mum remembering everything for him.

I don't think I'd dare even suggest the meds again, it was a bad time for the family.

I do agree he 'just' needs to find a reminder/organisational method that works. I think they tried all sorts through college, it was part of the reason that his relationship deteriorated. Friend helped him set up systems but he didn't keep it up and felt she was nagging him when she tried to get him to set his alarms or not supporting him when she left him to the consequences.

I thought she'd probably done all she could and it sounds like this is the case. I do think this is probably not an unusual case, I think the 'motivation' all feels like punishment - make it painful until they pull themselves together, but they aren't all capable of that. I don't know what the answer is.