PIP, resign, settlement - what's the best option for the future work reference?

[pcboo]

Hi - just wondering if anyone can help me.

I'm being put on a Performance Improvement Plan at work next week. I've been in a senior position in a financial service company for just under two years.

With everything happening in life, I'd rather leave and prioritise self-care. My job impacts my mental health and my family negatively. The workload is ridiculous + unrealistic expectations. Chances are committed to PIP won't lead to a good outcome.

Just wondering what would happen to my HR work reference if;

• Commit to PIP and being dismissed as a result (not preferred!)
• Resign before agreeing to PIP (i.e. still go to the PIP meeting but decide won't progress on)
• Ask for a settlement after the PIP meeting (and if not, I'm resigning anyway but have 3 -month notice period, so I'd rather find a way to leave early)
• Commit to PIP but resign mid-way

I don't think personal work references are in financial services anymore (I moved around a few times and was never asked for one), but I've never seen the HR official reference myself. Do they mention how I left my previous work in detail and how this affects my future work references?

Most employers only confirm the dates of employment, job title and little else. However, some employers give more.

It’s difficult to advise without knowing where you are financially and how long you can last without a job.

I would say option 1 is a no.

Do you feel like you have a good case for raising a grievance and asking for a settlement? I had a very strong case (non compliance with company policy, evidence of excellent performance, evidence of positive feedback from manager who tried to put me on a PIP up to the date I had an illness that led to disability (that didn’t affect work)). If you do then speak to an employment solicitor.

There is absolutely no quantifiable evidence to support this oft stated assertion. Every employer that I know of asks for more detailed references. That's my personal experience, and claiming "most employers" do something is nothing more than experience or mythology speaking. In some employments, including some areas of financial services, it is the law that more detailed references are given. So what your employer does is what your employer does - not what "most" or "some" do.

It is often the case that employers may be asked the reason for leaving and a "catch all" question about whether they would employ this person again. If that were the case you could be tripped up even if you resigned. A "no" to the latter question will not speak highly of you, and even with a settlement agreement / agreed reference they would have to say "no" if they are honest - which the law requires them to be.

That said I would suggest that, assuming you are looking to dial back your workload in any new job / take a step down or backwards. I would suggest resignation / settlement (if one is on offer - it may not be) and honesty. Agreeing that it isn't working out on both sides is less acrimonious (and less stressful) and enables a planned exit. Then tell potential employers the truth (without a blow by blow account) - you left because the job was very intense / too great a workload and you felt that a mutually agreed exit would enable both parties to move on, and so you are now looking for.... and that is your opportunity to return to why the job you are interviewing for is a better fit for your circumstances and what you have to offer them. There are then no surprises and you won't have to look over your shoulder in case anyone finds out about the reason for leaving.

Can you threaten to sue for constructive dismissal if the workload is unrealistic? Then the chances are they will offer you a settlement and an agreed reference.

I'm also wary about the 'most employers just ask for dates' thing. Lots do ask for more, including in FS (my area). And even if a formal reference isn't requested, the City runs on relationships and people might well chat about what's happening.

If you're not keen on staying (and assuming your finances would cope with it), could you quit now, enjoy Christmas, and pick yourself up in the new year?

Personally if you don't think you'll succeed in the PIP and you can afford it, I'd resign before the PIP stage and ask them to halt any PIP proceedings then your current employer can honestly say there was no formal process against you if they were asked.

Every employer that I know of asks for more detailed references

That doesn't mean they get them.

Whilst it is true that there are no statistics, we know that many employers are concerned that they might get sued if they give a more detailed response and therefore stick to a basic, factual reference.

Hi OP,

I'm sorry you're under so much pressure, I can imagine you want to leave it all behind.

Depending on your finances, I'd suggest resigning immediately.

They may look to terminate you with immediate effect and pay you your 3 month notice period as part of a settlement agreement- which should include an agreed reference.

Don't resign and instead push for a settlement OP.

I would make it clear in writing that your workload and targets are unrealistic and unachievable, that this is now affecting your health and mental health and that a PIP is not the way to address this.

Basically they are trying to get rid of you with a PIP and avoid having to agree a settlement for you to leave.

Get some legal advice and play hard ball.

To add further, family member in HR has mentioned that a PIP would not mentioned but depending on industry, if disciplinary action taken for eg over safe guarding etc that would.

A settlement should include an agreed reference. You could also enquire about one if you resign but I don't know about the legalities.

Also my experience of both giving and recieving references.
I actually resigned when under investigation for GM once and got a vey basic reference that was enough to not hamper my career

I’d approach them for a protected conversation and ask for something reasonable like 8 weeks pay plus your notice paying and a neutral reference saying you resigned. It’s surprising they’ve started you on a PIP if you’re less than 2 years service, but it will take weeks to fairly manage you out on a PIP and be a complete PITA and then they still have to serve (usually pay) your notice at the end so that’s a sensible offer.

I’m ex Big 4 and they only ever give dates only. Depends on how senior you are… quite possible someone might call up and ask what they think of pcboo, but they would be the same regardless of how you left.

Given how entirely impossible it would be to win, the chances are that the employer would fall over laughing before continuing towards dismissing them. Never threaten what you can't deliver.

Thank you all. I appreciate all the responses so far.

I can afford not to work for a while. Over the past few months, I worked hard and late at night to cover the crazy workloads and rectify the issues with my manager, but still, in the end, I did not meet "his" expectations. It came as a surprise last week. I can only assume he wants to get rid of me.

Hence, I know I am unlikely to be successful with PIP. I would try to settle to leave early not to waste anyone's time and the stress it may add. I don't want performance issues or any mention of a settlement exit to be on future work references.

I look forward to prioritising self-care (I haven't had one since giving birth to my DS) and spending time with my family.

If you’re in anyway fragile it is difficult being on a PIP. I’m 6 months in, spent 2-3 months negotiating it (still is very subjective) and 60 days have past. My manager was saying it was likely they were going to close it off as successful before her holidays and now my manager is not sure because of concerns they have had on (unfounded) lack of action on my part on a couple of things trying to blame me for other peoples actions. So I’m having to document everything to defend myself. The timeline has passed for my PIP but I’ve not had anything in writing that outlines further concerns. We had a disastrous 1 to 1 where I basically broke down as my manager was going on and on and on sticking the boot in and now it’s definitely time for me to put a grievance in and express my concerns to their manager. It’s a real HF!

Thanks for sharing your story. Sorry you had such a bad time through it.

I had similar feedback to yours .. we did informal development plan. All the feedback was positive and suddenly at the end it's all negatives and that I should go on PIP. It's frustrating.

Good luck with your case!

I'm no expert on business and employment so don't take my advice, but it would be extremely satisfying to whack your notice in and tell them to stick their PIP where the sun don't shine, so if you can afford to not work for a while I'd go for that option.

If you think they are trying to manage you out, and can afford not to work, I might be tempted to ask for a protected conversation. And through that try and negotiate a pay off. But you need to be prepared for them to say no (and for things to get worse after the conversation).

This happened to me so I raised a grievance against my manager for bullying, then went on sick leave while i got my shit together.. (she was a complete cow, gaslighting me for months, made snide personal digs about my character, was insanely jealous of my friendship with a new colleague and ironically had accused me of bullying her then denied ever saying this when formally confronted!!) so once the PIP was thrown in my face one day, I called her bluff. The sick leave gave me time to think, i got my union on board, and raised a grievance. All this meant I remained in employment. And had some real support. Then I actually fell pregnant so I just went on mat leave very early (i was sick for a long time, mental health was ruined by the job). I then returned after mat leave and she had thankfully "left" the company, and I found a new job very soon after returning.

Play all the cards you can. You are in an unfair predicament already so do not make things harder for yourself.

As OP has less than 2 years' service, she is in a weak position. She cannot take her employer to tribunal for unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal. If they want her out, they can simply dismiss her. Indeed, that could be the result if she tries to get a settlement agreement.

I e handled things like this in media / marketing several times.

they are going to get rid of you one way or another And it’s great you recognise this. A lot of people seem surprised and clueless even when it’s spelled out.

I’d go in and say very little and see what happens initially.
let them outline the plan, ask some questions about what it involves from them (ie make them explain/ think about how much work it creates for them - believe me managing pips is exhausting) and then at the very end ask if there are any alternatives to the pip.
Suggest you’d be open to being paid out your notice ie 3 month and saving them the hassle of a pip,
They may well accept. If they decline I’d commit to pip and see where you get to for now.
you can always resign whenever you want before pip ends.

re: references. you can if you want agree reference wording beyond dates of employment as part of settlement.

the best you’ll get is your notice paid out.

My employer offers it to anyone who passed probation. However, PIP for employee under 2 years of service will be in a shorter time frame. Though I'm worried about dismissal without warning now (because that can be on record).....

I'm not sure what you are saying your employer offers to anyone who passed probation?