Off sick - stages

[Blazingit]

I hope someone can help me with this.

I have been off work for last 7 months with mental health problems. I had one meeting with the line manager ,he now wants to see me for stage one meeting but not sure when.
i suffer from chronic illness and mental health illness and have been managed by my GP . I also had long covid at the peak of lockdown and stayed off work for 4 weeks. I decided to go back to work as I was at the front line and it was the right thing to do. Since then I have suffered with breathing problems, fatigue and stressed out but continued with my work. Last year I spoke with my Gp for a long covid clinic referral. Gp explained that there is no treatment and I should speak with the OH. I spoke with OH and again was told that there is no treatment for this but recommended changes to my work schedule. Nothing was changed as department was too busy and I knew everyone was busy and working hard. I then went on to have a breakdown and since then I have been off work. I am waiting for psychiatric review. OH haven’t done anything yet.
am now on half pay and it’s not enough to pay the bills. I know I should have paid more attention to my own health but it’s now so much worse than I ever been. I find myself feeling drained and depressed every single day and have no energy. I am forgetting things and then get frustrated with my self and children. I can’t do anything else but the profession I am trained to do. It’s taken 12 years to train and 20 years of experience. I am going to lose it all. I can’t think or imagine anything worse than this.
could anyone tell me what happens in stage one and what should I do about this situation.

To be honest OP this might help you in a way. Stage 1 meeting is usually where there are concerns about absence and informal measures haven’t been successful. It’s typically a meeting to give you a chance to explain what is going on, provide medical evidence, give you a chance to outline what you have done to help yourself so you can show evidence you have been referred for psychiatric review and are waiting for that, and then it’s for you and your employer to come up with a plan so that could be phased return, adjustments to hours, OH involvement etc.

All you can do is prepare that information, gather your medical evidence to support you, and then be fully transparent about what you truly think will work for you going forward, think about what is actually realistic for you. I know you say it was busy before so you didn’t want to reduce hours etc and while it’s lovely that you were thinking of your colleagues the truth is it’s much clearer and better for everyone if you are realistic and open about what you can actually do, e.g. it’s pointless saying you’ll go back full time when you know you’re unlikely to be able to do that. It’s better for all involved to have a plan that can work, so for example reduced hours and/or days, than to say you’ll be there as normal full time and then 6 weeks later be off again for months because you’re not capable of doing that long term.

Try not to worry about it and instead see it as an opportunity to make this work for you. X

Thank you and really appreciate your answer.
I will try and be honest and tell them that I am waiting psychiatric help. I can return to work but not sure when. If I reduce my hours would it affect my pension ? I am 57 now and need work full time. I’m already struggling financially and banks are ringing every day.

Do you work in the NHS? It sounds like you might. If so there are so many mistakes here.even if you don't this is terrible.

After 7 months off you should have already jad an OH referral. They should have met woth you after 4 weeks when absence was expecting to extend and then regulsr meetings thereafter. If the lack of changes recomended by OH previously are a contributing factor to your current absence get this documented! If you're a member of a union get in contact with them ASAP! also regardless of who you work for get a copy of their absence management policy. Then point put everything they havent done and how they've failed you.

This meeting will be about coming up with a plan, setting one up properly with targets so have a think about what you believe is doable beforehand so you are prepared to discuss that.

Yes reducing your hours will in turn affect your pension as you’ll be paying less in, so less to take out.

I appreciate what you’re saying about needing to work full time but the reality is that you’ve been off for 7 months already and this doesn’t sound like something there is going to be a quick fix for, so it’s not realistic to be focusing on working full time right now. You’ll be better off financially if you reduce or adjust your hours and therefore are able to stay working and earning than if you decide you must go back full time and then a few months later are back off for another 7+ months on sick pay again.

It’s about what you are actually capable of and you need to really think carefully about that and what you commit to. If you feel you are able to work full time and need to then by all means go for it, but the information you’ve given makes me think you’re likely not able to do that and would end up back off sick again as you’d be burnt out very quickly. It is better for both you and your employer to put together a realistic plan that you are capable of sticking to, rather than jumping back in full time and then being off again.

You say you 'need' to work full time but it sounds (from your description) that you will struggle to do so. Realistically, what do you hope to get out of the meeting? Have your expectations clearly planned out (in writing) so that you are able to articulate these in the meeting. Are you able to take someone with you as an advocate? It's easy to become overcome once faced with officials and 'jargon' in these types of meetings. Make sure you have whatever you need right in front of you 👍🏻

Yes it would affect your pension as you’ll be earning less. But it will affect your pension more if they let you go because you can’t return anytime soon, so it’s probably best to come up with a plan with them on how you can return and reduced hours may be part of that. Better to be earning some money then not at all.

Thanks everyone. Yes I work for NHS.it’s been so long since I’ve had a chance to think anything work related. I feel I don’t understand things the way I used to before the sickness situation. Thank you for making it easier to understand and I email to get a copy of the policy and then I will contact BMA. I am not well enough and loosing my mind, job and everything I have.
thank you

Had a colleague kept saying they loved the job

Inside 4 weeks sickness they were gone from an FTC,

I can tell you what the NHS sickness policy says as just been through all this with a family member who caught glandular fever from a patient which led to the relapsing remitting symptoms. They were referred to the long covid clinic (which is combined with the chronic fatigue clinic in my area), to be honest its mostly just advice about pacing strategies, rest, nutrition etc, there is no 'cure'.
The policy states that you have to have a return date within 4 weeks of sick pay ending. Unfortunately they weren't well enough so lost their job.
One fact that may be useful to you is that when they applied for ESA they found that you are entitiled to it from when statutory sick pay stopped (Check your payslip for this date as it will possibly be before your half pay runs out as it was for them) so it was back dated, it may be worth you contacting the relevant DWP department to see if you are entitled to any help now you are on half pay. Also if you find you are in the position whereby you lose your job they do have to give you two months notice at which point you go back on full pay and get paid all the annual leave that you have missed being able to take so that gives you a bit of breathing space.

Just another thought, is it possible for you to take your pension early or get it on medical grounds (I myself took my NHS pension at 58 and then only needed to work part time but I was on the 1995 version, I think the later ones you can take at 60, depends how long you have been in the NHS) might be worth looking into to take some of the financial worries off you whilst you try to recover.

Mossstitch
i didn’t know that I could take my pension early. Who do I speak with about this. I have been working in NHS since 1998. So both 1995 and 2015 pension. If I could unlock my pension, it would be a huge help with mortgage until I get better. I have a 6 month mortgage holiday for now. Could I send an email to my manager ? Or do I contact NHS pension and ask them. Thank you.

You can get your 1995 pension from 55 if you fall into certain categories. Off the top of my head if you work in mental health, nursing and midwifery.
You just get the form from the nhs pension agency and submit it to your employer.

If you don't fall into one of the categories you'll have to wait until 60 (and 67 for the 2015 pension).

There may also be the possibility of ill health retirement but you'd have to go through Occ Health to he declared permanently unfit for work. It's quite difficult to get and you'd really have to have exhausted all treatment options.

Your trust should have a pension person (sorry forgotten the correct title), contact HR and they will be able to tell you who it is, they should be able to talk you through the process and get you a projection of what you would receive. It was quite straightforward for me, I handed notice in completely, took a year off (family responsibilities), then went back on the bank and did 2-3 days a week. Your pension is slightly reduced obviously as you aren't paying it to the end but I've now had it for a good many years so my maths brain thought it was worth it. At 58 it was 9% less for the 1995 version and you get a tax free lump sum which would definitely take the pressure off you. You have a certain choice of how much you take, I chose the smallest lump sum which in my case was £14,000, and the largest monthly payment on the basis that it was better if I lived a long time to have a larger monthly income (and if I didn't I wouldn't know about it anyway🤷). But you can choose to take a bigger lump sum if it suits you better and less monthly. You started a few years before me so depending on your band you should be entitled to more than I had.

There are other schemes such as retire and return but in your situation I don't think that would work for you as you wouldn't be able to guarantee that you would be well enough to return, that would need to be agreed with your manager also whereas my way didn't.

Another benefit is that if you go back part time when well e ough you don't have to pay into the pension scheme so that's also a bit less out of your pay packet each month. Hope that's been helpful@Blazingit

Definitely. You have made things a lot easier for me to understand. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge of the process. I am going to email HR and also waiting for union to get back to me.

@Blazingit I agree with pp accessing your pension is a valid option.

My advice is to try to go down the ill health retirement route first as this means you don’t get abatement.