Only one offered a settlement instead of redundancy - legal?

[Chillymoanday]

I've been approached with a settlement during the start of consultation but I am the only one who has been approached.

Its a decent figure, but for a few reasons, I'm not inclined to make this easy for them despite the settlement making it fairly clear to me that I'm the employee they want gone.

Can I use this later as proof the decision to make me redundant was already decided?

Unfair dismissal may cause grief, but check the numbers. I looked at it a while back and the amount would have been less than the redundancy package.

Negotiate the settlement agreement and move on with your life. I was bitter for a while at a previous employer. Time and distance have been good for me.

Feel like this has come to an end but just in case anyone new has any views I just want to be absolutely clear that this is not about the money and I really, truly, do not care if I'd end up with less if I could take it further.

Thanks again everyone.

I wouldn't get bogged down in the detail - I would get a lawyer to look it over , make recommendations, follow those up with employer if needs be with lawyers letter (tells them you are not daft and will push things) and then go from there. Whatever you are out the door push your advantage, don't tke it personally and start looking

The only time a protected conversation isn't protected is when you may want to bring a claim of discrimination. So unless you are saying they are only making you redundant as opposed to others due to (insert protected characteristic here) then I don't think you've anywhere to go with this.

If you employers are that bad take the money and run.

Make sure before you sign the agreement you tell every man and his dog verbally how poor your company is. Verbally as they cannot prove you said anything. If you do end up signing on make sure you tell the unemployment office exactly what you did.

I had an employer who got rid of virtually everyone I worked with over the course of 18 months with settlement agreements as they were made everyone unfairly redundant to get a cheaper workforce. It back fired as when they required people with a specific skill to work for them I found out through a couple of recruiters that everyone who worked for them before refused to work for them again. One I had a longer conversation with was trying to find out exactly why.

I then ended up working with 2 guys who were part of that cheaper replacement work force else where. One told me sufficient detail that revealed the management also treated them like shit.

I’m not sure what you want to get out of this exactly……taking it all at face value then yes, they do want you to go and are offering a settlement agreement so they don’t have to actually go through the redundancy process which is time consuming and unpleasant. So if you want to stick it to them, then refusing the settlement probably does that. Regards you then being able to stick it to them further when you ARE inevitably made redundant….. everything @Mrsttcno1 has written is bang on accurate

The offer will have almost definitely been made on a without prejudice basis which means you could not refer to it further down the line to claim your selection for redundancy was pre determined

They will have calculated the money with an eye to what you would get if you took them for discrimination and/or unfair dismissal.

It’s highly unlikely that they’d put 5 people at risk of a sham redundancy in order to remove one person. It is possible that the redundancy is genuine and that they don’t want to follow the objective criteria for some reason. You can ask openly whether they have made the offer as you are the preferred candidate to go, and if so why that is the case as it’s unlikely you would be the lowest scoring person on the matrix they have shared. This is a perfectly reasonable question and the sort of considered response which is likely to result in an enhancement to the offer. You might force them to follow the fair process and choose someone else but you need to think about what that would look like afterwards. It might create an environment in which you can’t thrive.

Call ACAS and ask for advice

*offered a settlement to "bring the process to a close thats less stressful for everyone"

I really, truly, do not care if I'd end up with less if I could take it further.*

You are not in a good position here. You are effectively saying that you prefer to put everyone through a full blown redundancy situation, with all the stress and anxiety that that would incur, to just accepting a payoff and going quietly.

What is it that you want to achieve here? What would make you happy or at least content? You can make a counter offer as part of the settlement negotiation process.

Ask for what you want, if you can articulate what that is. And then accept the settlement.

I'm sorry you are in this position. Remember though that your best chance of 'winning' is likely to be to go on to have a much better life without them. All the best.

Op

Have a deep dive and really think about what you want from this and what would success look like to you and pursue that.
You know it's not about money for you.
Would you like to stay with the company?
Would you like an apology?
Do you just want to make them suffer a bit more.

I think if you figure that out then you'll get better advice here but I know that it can't be hard unpick emotions.

What is your ideal outcome here OP? Let's say you are correct and this has been deliberately done to get rid of you and you manage to prove this, do you really want to stay in this job? If you don't and you want to go for unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal you will be tied up in the process for months. It's horrendous. They aren't ever going to tell you that you are correct without a hell of a protracted fight. Take the money and leave.

They do definitely need to lose 1 role, so thats not a sham. The sham part would be only me thats offered a settlement then im the one selected - they do have form for fudging figured and they said the criteria isn't finalised as agreeing it is part of consultation (so basically, if I don't agree to the settlement, they'll of course revisit the criteria somehow)

So basically the legislation (?) Regarding settlement discussions overrides redundancy legislation?

Can anyone in the know/qualified confirm? Not shitty with that, guess it would help me to just get out my head a bit, today at least. Although it's been quite nice to not think about other things.

Then use that to get more money out of them. They want to pay you off - you’re going one way or another. But an extra 2, 5, 10 grand often smooths the process…

They want the OP and a few others gone. However as they can't fairly get rid of the OP, probably linked to discrimination reasons, they have offered her a settlement.

Companies do this all the time.

No you can't. If you were subsequently selected you would need to show that the redundancy process was legally unfair - the offfer before that process takes place is irrelevant. And to be clear, it is a very stupid employer who cannot implement an entirely legally fair redundancy process and get the result they want. It would take me a matter of five minutes to throw one together, and to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were selected fairly (in law). You'd also be shocked at how easy it is to find cause to dismiss someone if an employer is motivated enough - no employee is so perfect that there isn't something to find given time and effort. So be careful that in your desire to make your employer suffer, you don't end up the one on the receiving end.

Oh, and you want an agreed reference too.

You wouldn't believe how many stupid employers there are.

Basically yes OP.

You could try and make a claim for unfair, but you can’t use the settlement as any part of that, it’s irrelevant and cannot be used in that way.

Three pages of qualified HR professionals are advising you and you’re not happy with the advice. What more do you want?

I would - but I wouldn't be willing to bet my own money on that being the case.

I second "take the money and run"

Its not worth your energy to bother with this to be honest

Just because you have been offered a settlement you don’t have to take it. Just say no and go through the process. See how they score everyone and raise a grievance if you think you have been unfairly selected.

this is 100% all open to you but having been through it and worked as HR on the other side it is very stressful for everyone. You might end up worse off than if you have taken the settlement but if it doesn’t bother you then run with it. Taking to the tribunal is almost impossible these days due to cost though so bear that in mind

No it's not. That's the whole point of it.