Sensitive issue: miscarriages

[catinshorts]

I'm aware of how sensitive and triggering this enquiry may seem but I'm wondering whether anyone can offer any insight. I'm a single woman with no children and no personal experience of this situation and I'm concerned that all the mothers in HR will glower at me for raising this.

I manage several small teams, each of which has its own manager who reports to me. One of these managers has raised concerns about an employee who's been with us for just short of 21 months and in that time has had four miscarriages and has taken a combination of sick leave and bereavement leave each time.

Most recently last month she miscarried on the last day of her holiday abroad, was unable to fly back as planned and eventually returned to work after eight working days. Her manager reports that colleagues screenshot social media images of her out drinking and sunbathing, apparently still abroad in Turkey during a second week there. Those pictures have since been removed from social media. Her colleagues believe she is faking. They say she said a couple of times prior to going away that she and her partner had booked a fortnight's holiday when it was known she'd only booked a week's leave from work. When picked up about it she said it was a slip of the tongue and they were only going for a week.

After the second miscarriage and bereavement leave around this time last year HR invited her to attend a meeting for a welfare/ return check. The company offers counselling after a bereavement. Her manager can find no evidence that she attended a meeting or that HR followed up. Her performance has been just about good enough. In other circumstances she would probably have been put on a PIP but the fact that she has been multiply bereaved has complicated the situation.

Her manager is unsure what to do and has handed the problem to me. My instinct is to invoke HR on the basis of sick leave and concerns from colleagues and let them deal with it. Is this the best strategy?

I mean this kindly as you obviously don’t work in either OH or HR.

Again though everything you have said is about managing the impact of long term stress, PTSD, mental health due to miscarriage etc, or the physical impact of miscarriage. It’s not for managing absence due to miscarriage. If someone has a miscarriage you can assume they will be absent for a period and there is no reasonable adjustment for this.

Making someone feel comfortable in their job by taking away duties is not a proper reasonable adjustment for recurrent miscarriage. It’s a nice thing to do and it’s something that good managers should look at (in consultation with HR) as standard following miscarriage or close bereavement. Same with whether a phased return is appropriate. Neither of these really need input from occupational health. You might want some advice from occupational health if the employee is in a physical role, or one that involves chemicals etc but if the role does then this should already be highlighted as part of the pregnancy risk assessment process and would apply to any pregnancy, not just those women experiencing recurrent miscarriage.

If someone is experiencing recurrent miscarriage then by the time they are on their third this points to a medical cause. It’s not because they lifted a 26kg box on their own. It’s not because they had a heavy workload or felt stressed. Once we get here then without investigation (which OH can’t arrange) and diagnosis then there’s not a lot OH can advise. Even with a diagnosis OH aren’t the best people for giving advice on managing it at work - this is best coming from individual consultants.

The only reasonable adjustment for recurrent miscarriage available really is allowing time for investigations, treatment, any extra check ups etc following miscarriage and in subsequent pregnancies and this is already covered under the equality act and maternity employment legislation.

Get legal advice pronto.

If, god forbid, she is lying, you will almost certainly never get any solid evidence of it. And if she is lying, she has been savvy enough to go with a lie that is difficult to use against her on an absence management basis. Whether she is lying or telling the truth, you could find yourself in legal hot water quite quickly if you don't handle this appropriately.

She might be lying. Or it might all be true. It's far from impossible, and early miscarriages generally don't involve any medical involvement. And coping and grief take many, many forms. So I would explore whether there is a basis to address issues with her purely on the basis of whether there is some absence level which is simply too much for the business to handle, or how you can performance manage her cleanly without bringing the absence and alleged miscarriages into it at all.

The fact that her colleagues are reporting this onto their line manager speaks volumes, OP. Situations like this soon breed resentment.

Yes the lady may be having ongoing medical issues, but it's a convenient excuse that is sensitive to raise and that she may not have had medical attention for each time.... hence having to walk on eggshells around it. And she likely knows that. Someone booking a 2 week holiday then using 1 week annual leave.... and then having a medical event that necessitates staying for said further week? It's the oldest trick in the book.

It does speak volumes. Means that the line manager isn’t nipping this in the bud. That’s a line manager problem.

It does speak volumes. Means that the line manager isn’t nipping this in the bud. That’s a line manager problem.

The line manager brought it to me because staff raised this as an issue in the last few days and she knows this is a tricky situation which requires handling by HR/ someone fully cognisant of the legalities. The LM has made it clear to the team members who raised this that and nothing more needs to be said . How on earth you can nip this in the bud I don't know. When staff inform you of an issue of potential concern you listen — or don't you?

I and the LM know that there's no way of proving anything. As PPs have said, apart from dealing with the sick note and wellness aspects of the situation, nothing is likely to happen. I and the LM will, I hope, receive some advice from HR on how we move forward.

Won't they have evidence of a return flight booked to come back 1 week after their outward one?

If they were telling the truth?

This could be treated as an absence issue, not disbelieving the miscarriage but evidence that they were never coming back that day anyway.

It’s a problem because there’s obviously a culture of gossip. If there was tangible evidence ie she messaged someone and said she was faking then I’d consider how to raise this with the employee, but right now it’s just hearsay - gossip, and I would expect a line manager to stop this. Gossiping between team members about whether or not someone is faking a miscarriage - with absolutely no evidence except they were on Facebook with a cocktail - that’s not for them to do and it’s tantamount to bullying.

If I was investigating this I would want to know how it’s come about that the team members are raising a concern. Why do they know that their colleague has stayed for another week due to a medical incident? Unless the colleague in question has told them directly she has had a miscarriage and had to stay then they shouldn’t know anything other than she has extended her holiday for her own reasons. If her line manager has told the rest of her team anything apart from that then she’s in breach of GDPR for sharing private medical information. She definitely shouldn’t be telling other team members that it’s an issue for HR to deal with.

Deal with the extended absence. Get her fit note to cover it. You can ask for proof of her original return booking. If she can’t prove she was meant to return on her original date then that’s a misconduct issue separate to miscarriage absence. If you get these then you need to assume she is genuine and deal with the issues relating to her line manager and wider team because if this woman is genuine, then she isn’t the problem.

The fact colleagues are saying she had booked 2wks and only leave for one would make me very suspicious about her recent absence. Such a difficult situation though, as others have said, she could have coped by partying and of course sunbathing is just relaxing. I don’t understand why she couldn’t fly home, did she explain that? Maybe an extra day or two, but another week and she returns on the day she would have if she had booked 2wk break is suspicious (unless only one flight per week, unlikely, but depends on location)

I don't understand why you're so antagonistic and hectoring. Of course colleagues know when someone fails to return to work after a week's leave — particularly when some of them are friends and following each other on social media. As for anything else, it's in the hands of HR.

I imagine it does feel like I’m being antagonistic. I addressed that yes team members will have noticed that the colleague isn’t back on time but that doesn’t mean their manager is allowed to tell them why. If your manager has shared confidential medical information then that’s not me hectoring you, it’s me wondering whether there’s been a serious breach of GDPR legislation, which has made the situation worse because it’s let to a witch hunt of sorts. You didn’t say whether this is what’s happened but I assume it is because you feel picked on by my comments.

I have to say again that at the centre of this is someone who is having repeated medical complications in pregnancy and repeated miscarriage, and right now there’s no evidence she’s not genuine.

that doesn’t mean their manager is allowed to tell them why.

You're jumping to ridiculous conclusions and making things up. I'm muting you.

Just asked a question. Sorry it touched a nerve.

Now I’m muted, if the colleague in question happens to recognise herself in this, I highly recommend putting a subject access request in. This means that you will be provided with any emails, teams messages etc that refer to you and your situation. You can then decide what to do with these and whether you need legal advice.

Like others have said it would take an awful type of person to fake miscarriages but it’s an equally abhorrent idea that someone would be experiencing this and having all this going on in the background at work, from the people she is supposed to trust to support her through this and take care of her wellbeing.

I am by no means an expert in this but my understanding was that if sickness absence is to come under the pregnancy protections then it has to be medically declared as pregnancy related ie. not everything that may make you off sick when pregnant is pregnancy related.

Now miscarriage is obviously pregnancy related but would it not still need to be medically certified in order to be treated as such for the purpose of sickness absence?
As I say I'm not an expert but hopefully your HR will know the answer to this

No they wouldn't. If you were off for a couple of days with really bad morning sickness, you would self certify you would need a doctors note. Same here unless it's over a week (or whatever the self certification period is) you don't need a fit note.

There are clearly two different issues - the holiday situation and the recurrent miscarriages. It does sound as if the manager is pissed off about the earlier miscarriages/absences and the possibility that she might have been lying is being latched onto.

OP good luck with the muting, not sure how that one works!

I'd tread very carefully.
Have you any reason to believe she is faking ?
How she behaves around the time of the miscarriages proves nothing. People deal with things very differently.
I've had team members have several in a year. I haven't had reason to doubt it's anything but the truth and have supported them through what must be an extremely traumatic experience.
Imagine if she feels she is being scrutinised when she's experienced such trauma if it is genuine.
If you are concerned seek HR advice first and dont discuss any concerns with any other team members.

@catinshorts
The other team members need to be firmly told to stop the gossip etc.

As pp have said you have to accept the employees word they have suffered a miscarriage.

WRT Performance, this is where legitimately you can follow the process and take action. This is where I would focus HR help to make sure you follow the Performance Management process. Fundamentally it’s a simple process - agree objectives ( make sure they are SMART or at least clear and unambiguous) - identify any training needs - review by going through objectives and identifying areas for improvement.

I know the employee will bring up her miscarriages etc. but you need to follow through. One way you can do it is say rather than looking at 3 or 4 areas for improvement this week/month we will take on board what you are going through and so we will only focus on 1 or 2 areas. Alternatively, instead of giving you 2 months to improve we will give you 3 months. In effect, apply reasonable adjustments to show you have softly applied the process.

Ask for a fit note to cover the absence. It’s over a week so she can’t self certify.

It is grounds in many companies to further investigate if sick leave happens just before, or at the end of, a holiday, or if there is a recurring pattern of sickness absence. It would also be reasonable to investigate considering she told a colleague she was on holiday for two weeks.

You could ask for proof that her flights were changed, or holiday extended (change of hotel booking). She could provide her medical records. But if you’re wrong, it would be quite a fuck up.

I have had to do similar to catch two employees out for lying about having cancer. They both got sacked.

It's not a fuck up if she is telling h the truth. It's just back up at support the sick leave one assumes she is paid in full for?

This is a really difficult situation where it's going to be impossible to know if she is being truthful or not.
I don't envy you.
I'd be getting HR to deal with it.

@Harassedevictee and @MrsPinkCock thank you: constructive information/ advice. I'll be taking it all to HR tomorrow: the person who needs to see it has been on leave. As we all acknowledge, this needs someone who really knows what they're doing.

For this last instance where she had to delay return home from her one week holiday she surely had to seek medical attention for her holiday insurance to pay out. So presumably HR can ask for a medical note on this occasion and a fit to work note?

Yes there must be proof of her or the insurance company paying for a new return flight and extra hotel costs.

Or if not, the assumption is it was pre-planned to be there 2 weeks all along.

What a thought provoking post. Thanks.

Has she ever provided a doctors note to say she has miscarried?

I would be more concerned about the staff members who are delighting in stalking her on social media and complaining that she is 'faking it'...I would hate to work with people like this.

You can definitely speak to HR but my guess is that you are going to be told there is little they can do.