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Original poster

Letting a colleague fail

45 replies

SoosieM · 17/10/2024 21:02

I work in a finance role, involved in the opening of new supermarkets. Roughly 2 years ago a new Project Manager joined the team who is responsible for coordinating the whole process of opening the new supermarkets. She joined the team from another department within the company so already had useful knowledge and skills.

At the beginning I tried my best to help her. I answered all the questions she asked me to the best of my ability even if it wasn't area, I directed her to the correct department when I couldn't help her etc. I just tried to be a welcoming and supportive colleague and help wherever I could. However it quickly became clear that within her department of Project Mangers she wanted to give the impression that she had hit the ground running and didn't want to ask her boss or any of the other project managers whenever she had doubts about anything, everything came straight to me even things not remotely related to finance. After a year I did start replying to a lot of her questions that these are things she needs to ask her boss or more experienced PMs and that has died down now.

Unfortunately this person is not at all suited to the job of project manager as they are extremely unorganised and forgetful. Until recently I was always sending her reminders about information she needed to send me, things she still needed to follow up on etc. but after 2 years it was really starting to get on my nerves that she still hadn't got the hang of the job and I decided to stop. In my opinion she should know all of this by now and be able to deal with the projects on her own. Me supporting her wasn't doing her any favours as no one was picking up that she needs help. Her manager was only really concerned about getting openings done on time and as long as that was achieved no one was looking at what this colleague is doing.
Things are now going downhill for this colleague and although she hadn't said anything I can tell that she is resentful of me working with her is getting uncomfortable.

Would other people have continued to support the colleague? I do feel a bit bad but equally I have enough on my plate and she has enough people within her own department who she can turn to for help if she needs it.

OP posts:
Meganssweatycrotch · 22/10/2024 13:35

You’ve inserted yourself into an awkward position to start with and now decided you don’t want to do it anymore. This should have really been nipped in the bud at the beginning. Your ‘ help’ should have been referring her back to her team and advising your are finance and that’s your only input to the project. Rinse and repeat.

Hadalifeonce · 22/10/2024 13:44

The OP told her to refer to her manager or other PMs, and those questions to the OP seem to have stopped.
In your shoes OP, I would send one message to say that you can only do what you are required to do, once the information is received from her; and that should be driven by her, not by you.
That way she should be under no illusion that the onus is upon her to be proactive.

PhoebeFeels · 22/10/2024 13:53

Will you apply for her job when she leaves? [neutral question]

5475878237NC · 22/10/2024 13:58

I'd start sending reminders cc her boss.

Lavenderblossoms · 22/10/2024 14:24

Brefugee · 22/10/2024 09:12

frankly? it doesn't matter if someone has innatentive ADHD. If you are in a role, you are required to do that role.

When my Project Managers don't provide information i need in a timely manner, i send one reminder - then i escalate.
I do have a schedule though, and i am not at all shy about telling people i have a shitlist and once you're on it twice, i will name and shame. Not in a childish way, but in a factual "i am missing this info and x y and z must send it over now"

What kind of Project Management model are you using? is it all "oh we're so agile" without any understanding of what that is? Waterfall? something else?

Show quote history

I have inattentive adhd. My job is important to get our data correctly.

I have had reasonable adjustments including help inputting reminders of my own to help me remember when our deadlines are to be met. There are so many tools nowadays that can help with this. Teams, tasks, even email reminders can be done.

Once I have this in place, the rest is still on me. If I was forgetting things all of the time without trying to do something about it, I doubt I would stay in my job forever. Even if it is the NHS!

It is a disability and I do need some help in reminders and organising myself. But now we've set up those, I still have to take responsibility for myself. And I'm unmedicated. It's not easy but you can't blame someone else, especially who's job it isn't, to be integral to your own job.

Besides this person isn't even diagnosed.

Brefugee · 22/10/2024 14:34

sorry, i didn't mean that anyone with inattentive ADHD shouldn't have any and all help they need to do their role. There are so many things these days that help, and we should use as much or as little of that as we require.

I mean that, once in the role, like @Lavenderblossoms - it's on the person to do the job they're paid for.

I'm literally just out of a meeting with 2 PMs. One is brilliantly organised, the other relies on others to send them reminders about literally everything including this meeting which was to help them organise themself so they can do their job. It is the last one before they are going to be let go, but if they can't do the job, they need to make way for someone who can.

WallaceinAnderland · 22/10/2024 14:51

It's fine to step back now. Just focus on your own job and don't give it another thought.

Maddy70 · 22/10/2024 14:54

No. You still ask for what you require to do your job ....

notatinydancer · 22/10/2024 15:07

Pinkapie · 22/10/2024 04:56

Very unfair op, you've set her up to fail.

The PM is not doing her job properly.
I have seniors who have to report certain information. They are senior , more qualified and paid more than me , I'm not spoon feeding them.

YellowSundress · 22/10/2024 17:02

Brefugee · 22/10/2024 09:12

frankly? it doesn't matter if someone has innatentive ADHD. If you are in a role, you are required to do that role.

When my Project Managers don't provide information i need in a timely manner, i send one reminder - then i escalate.
I do have a schedule though, and i am not at all shy about telling people i have a shitlist and once you're on it twice, i will name and shame. Not in a childish way, but in a factual "i am missing this info and x y and z must send it over now"

What kind of Project Management model are you using? is it all "oh we're so agile" without any understanding of what that is? Waterfall? something else?

Show quote history

People like you are far harder to work with than the op's colleague.

Original poster
SoosieM · 22/10/2024 20:58

It is not my job to train or mentor her nor have I ever tried to. I only tried to be helpful. I did not warn her that I would be stepping back and not following up with her so much as I knew she wouldn't take it well and honestly it was a difficult conversation I wanted to avoid. She does not take criticism well and anything I would have said would have been taken the wrong way.

Anyway, my boss had made an official complaint about her today. Unrelated to anything I am working on with her. We all have issues with her but today was the straw that broke the camel's back for my boss. She has been asking my boss to deviate from company policy and when my boss said no the PM's response was one that proved she has no idea about the logic r importance behind the things that we do and the way we do them.

My boss is not a malicious person so I don't think she is looking for any disciplinary action. She is a stickler for the rules so I think she is just looking for some extra support and training. Not sure how the PM will react to that but now it's gone down the official channels I probably won't hear anything more about it.

OP posts:
Findinganewme · 22/10/2024 22:41

Letting her fail feels harsh, to me.

  1. we don’t know her personal circumstances eg kids, mortgage, sick dependants etc
  2. she may have anxiety or stress that would impact her wellbeing, should she fail.
  3. she may be trying really hard, to learn or to keep a job.

i would try and take a more practical approach;

  1. do you have regular meetings where expectations, deadlines etc are discussed?
  2. have you given her formal or informal feedback on what she needs to improve on?
  3. are there documents or flow diagrams from your team/ you, to her team/ her?
  4. if you are not the right person to go to, do you tell her who is? You probably have a better network than she does? Maybe walk her over and introduce them to each other…hello, this is X, he/she is the expert on…

I have seen what happens to people who have been ‘allowed to fail’ in the corporate world and it’s heartbreaking to see how it affects them and their loved ones. Please be mindful.

Liveafr · 23/10/2024 08:06

Part of the job of a project manager is to take on the mental load of remembering (or finding a system to be reminded of) deadlines, milestones, infos to chase and when, etc... So you have not been helping her, you have been diong part of her job for her. It's not unreasonable at all to stop, but it would be nicer to explain that to her rather than withdraw your support abruptly with no explanation. I understand that, I'm not great at confrontations or difficult conversations myself, haha.

Liveafr · 23/10/2024 09:07

Findinganewme · 22/10/2024 22:41

Letting her fail feels harsh, to me.

  1. we don’t know her personal circumstances eg kids, mortgage, sick dependants etc
  2. she may have anxiety or stress that would impact her wellbeing, should she fail.
  3. she may be trying really hard, to learn or to keep a job.

i would try and take a more practical approach;

  1. do you have regular meetings where expectations, deadlines etc are discussed?
  2. have you given her formal or informal feedback on what she needs to improve on?
  3. are there documents or flow diagrams from your team/ you, to her team/ her?
  4. if you are not the right person to go to, do you tell her who is? You probably have a better network than she does? Maybe walk her over and introduce them to each other…hello, this is X, he/she is the expert on…

I have seen what happens to people who have been ‘allowed to fail’ in the corporate world and it’s heartbreaking to see how it affects them and their loved ones. Please be mindful.

It's not really OP's job to do all that. If anything it's the colleague's manager's job. There is no reason it's on the OP to take on that extra workload. She will not get any thanks or bonus or any career advancement doing so, just extra work.
I've read an excellent article called "being glue" by Tanya Reilly that details what could happen to women who take on additional tasks while trying to be helpful. I highly recommend the read.

Lincoln24 · 23/10/2024 09:17

The problem is that you have supported her for TWO YEARS so this is now custom and practice for her. The time to withdraw your support was when she was less than six months into the job. She could legitimately expect this to continue. It's no good saying now that "this isn't how the company does it". To her it is.

Apart from anything else she now has employment rights so disciplinary processes are that much more regulated.

You have put yourself in a risky position because of and when she goes through capability procedures she will be able to demonstrate you offered long term support to her. If I was your manager I'd be frustrated with you because you've created a problem for the company here. You'll have to hope there are enough other problems with her performance to justify improvements plans or dismissal.

Pluvia · 23/10/2024 10:59

Pinkapie · 22/10/2024 04:56

Very unfair op, you've set her up to fail.

She's two years into the job and she still hasn't got a handle on how to run things. She's been given two years to learn and improve her skills. She hasn't consolidated or learned and the OP hasn't set her up to fail.

It's really not the responsibility of competent workers to constantly prop up the incompetents. That's the way you lose good staff. I'd have started escalating the issues a year ago, OP. But then I've been an employer as well as an employee and I know how much money and time people who are disorganised and not up to the job can cost a business.

Pluvia · 23/10/2024 11:01

You have put yourself in a risky position because of and when she goes through capability procedures she will be able to demonstrate you offered long term support to her. If I was your manager I'd be frustrated with you because you've created a problem for the company here. You'll have to hope there are enough other problems with her performance to justify improvements plans or dismissal.

Never read so much tosh in my life.

DodoTired · 23/10/2024 11:56

In my company that would have been escalated to her manager long time ago

Phoenixfire1988 · 23/10/2024 15:49

Pinkapie · 22/10/2024 04:56

Very unfair op, you've set her up to fail.

She set herself up to fail taking on a job she isn't equipped to do

nchnchnchnhhh · 23/10/2024 16:30

I have inattentive ADHD and am a brilliant PM if people let me get on with it.

The advice I would give is if you are going to help people, you help them and you let it go. You never expect thanks ( I've trained and coached junior staff and very rarely received any thanks. The thanks is in seeing them do well) and you never bring it out the cupboard as 'oh well I've supported you for so long etc.'. Never give more than you are prepared to not get back.

I agree I would gather evidence of what you have done , and now draw a line under it and communicate this openly and constructively.

You sound diligent and hardworking so you don't want that to go unrecognised.

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