Civil service/intelligence - how far do they actually go with clearance?

[Angelasparty]

Just curious really…obviously people working at the agencies are interviewed extensively to make sure they are the right ‘fit’. Of course references/background checks are highly in-depth, but do they remotely investigate other stuff too - eg internet use/tax returns/bank accounts/medical records etc?

I’m just wondering how far this actually goes? Surely it’s a GDPR nightmare if they are accessing confidential documents without people knowing?!

Can't speak for civil service but military check medical records and I had to have background checks for my dd to sign up. You sign a waiver for them to check you extensively

It depends on the level of clearance to how far they go into it.
The high level stuff/MI5 etc yes it's very indepth to the point about family history, relationship history etc. Mainly as they have to work out if a person could potentially be blackmailed.

Most civil servants are not that level however.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/united-kingdom-security-vetting-clearance-levels/edv-guidance-pack-for-applicants#:~:text=The%20enhanced%20Developed%20Vetting%20(eDV,Checking%20against%20criminal%20records explains the process

It depends on the level of security clearance required. As I understand it, most Civil Service departments will need Baseline checks which involve checking identity, right to work, employment history, etc. Others will go much further - there’s details of what’s involved in each level of clearance here:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/united-kingdom-security-vetting-clearance-levels

Depends on the clearance level. DH is going through this for the MOD at the moment. The things he's being asked are insane. He will be a subcontractor so not directly employed.

They check various systems for records / intelligence and for higher levels bank statements have to be submitted / potentially friends interviewed. Online ids are also requested on forms. So not a GDPR nightmare you have to volunteer info.

Medical checks are separate from clearance.

You give away a certain degree of privacy, both during the initial vetting process and ongoing in your life. You also don’t get to know exactly how much checking they do.

the trade-off is getting to do valuable work and know you are making a real contribution to society.

It's very detailed but it is with your consent so not a data issue at all. It's mainly to make sure you are not blackmailable in the role I am currently in.

My favourite question on the from is have you ever committed espionage? I felt like such a loser saying no.

Thanks so much, so interesting. I was being a bit dim re GDPR and volunteered information! So presumably you sign consent forms for things like medical records, but they aren’t remotely looking at your bank accounts or whatever without your knowledge?

I feel like the ADHD would be problematic. "No, hold on, maybe, no no actually no. How are you defining it?".

I once really pissed off someone I was travelling with by saying similar at the TSA checks. I did point out that actually criminal people are probably better at lying than me. And don't say, "hold on, maybe I do have a knife".

I always loved, "are you, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?". When did they stop asking that in the States.

We are not in the UK.
For my son: I'm not sure about details of all checks conducted but I do know my son's pre-primary teacher was visited (and questioned) at her house. His father and I had to post original documents including our passports, birth and marriage certificates.
Also my parents were contacted when my husband's brother-in-law was being vetted.
Quite honestly, the level they continue to go with my son, I expect to have to send documentation about the dogs' vaccinations!

@MrsTerryPratchett I'm glad it's not just me! I always have to think when they ask me questions at the airport. I don't know why. I know I'm not carrying anything for anyone else or carrying any prohibited items but I still pause and do a mental (literally!) check.

I also was pulled aside by customs once for drug testing. He asked if I'd ever taken drugs and if so what and when. I told him and then kept changing my answer. "Ecstasy but last time was 10years ago....oh no, I did a pill seven years ago...hang on,maybe it was 8...I've been around friends smoking weed if that counts. It was about five years ago...(mutters to self, just after A's birthday, that's in April, etc etc) No sorry, it was 6 years ago"

The poor customs guy probably regretted picking me out of the queue 😁

SC cleared here. One below DV which is usually security services.

The process is a long application and quite intrusive, involves financials and questions about extended family.

It's about honesty above all else - rather than if you got nicked for shoplifting at 17. (It's irrelevant if you admit it - but a fail , if you don't)
It's all about not giving others that you may come into contact with - the opportunity for blackmail by exposing your 'secrets' . If you declare all - then it removes this risk.

I think it will vary by role and organisation. I had a medical but that only quickly looked at medical history and think it was quite rare for people not to be passed. If no gaps in employment history didn't look at bank accounts and not an Internet.

Have had other roles want 5 years bank statements and go through every item in and out, usually financial roles if had gaps in work history for maternity leave etc. Never had Internet use checked. Worst one I had was for a US job where pre interview you had to fill in a 30 page form which included everywhere you had ever travelled since birth I think, think they were looking for Cuba etc which had been to. And another abroad needed dental checks and records. Generally places always make you aware though had smaller companies do Google searches on my name as they said at interview.

It goes pretty far for the highest levels, you need to volunteer things like financial information, travel information, family details and those of your spouse, you need referees who will be interviewed. You will be interviewed and talk about your Internet habits, spending habits, personal history etc. As said every time this comes up, they're not critiquing your lifestyle, they're trying to find out if you can be bought so extreme exceptions aside, you will clear if you are completely transparent.
It doesn't end there either, you need to declare changes in circumstances, sign a lot of paperwork and be prepared to almost do it all again at every renewal.

DV vetting is very intrusive.

OH was living in a HMO when he applied to one of the secret services. He had all the qualifications but wondered if he was turned down because a past or present resident had something dodgy in their past.

I have only ever held CTC and SC clearance, not the higher levels.

On one job I was asked to supply 6 months bank records. Rest of my renewals I haven't had to, though I suppose they could probably find them electronically if they wanted to.

For the higher levels, I know several people have disclosed some "risky habits" and been cleared. The vetting staff are more concerned over whether you're blackmailable or still mix with dodgy people than what you actually did. As long as you're honest then you are less blackmailable as you in ow your employer already knows all your secrets!

As a PP said, it’s all about honesty. They already know the answers so also know if you lie. DH has the highest level and they seem to pick a topic for each grilling. Once it was about my finances which pissed me right off!

When we first met, he was called in for an unexpected ‘interview’ - because they knew he’d met me, on the other side of the world.

This is all fascinating. I'm a little questioning of 'they already know already', because surely they are not interrogating the personal life of each potential candidate in advance of questioning? Isn't it more likely that if there is a red flag, they will investigate?

Interested in the idea that they are trying to find out if you are 'able to be bought' - what happens if a candidate has significant savings or a high-earning partner? Would that work against them?

@BrainLife - tell us more!

DH is in the same situation.
He was also a reference for someone else doing it and I believe that there are even questions about sexual preferences, I think they are looking for anything that could be used as leverage against you

My daughter has had to fill in a form about her family history for her boyfriend's clearance. They wanted a lot of info about me which was easy to supply, less so about her father because we split up when I was pregnant after a short relationship. There were a lot of blanks on that part of the form. I'm sure they will be able to do their own googling and find him.

DC1 (age 22 - new graduate) just started working for MOD and it took a full working day to fill out the forms for their security clearance. They are banned from travelling to countries such as China, Russia and North Korea.

I assume they checked social media. They contacted an employer who DC1 worked at while at school. It is also my employer. According to the poor person who had to deal with it, it was the most difficult to answer form they had ever had in their whiole career.

My dh was interviewed by the MOD as part of his best friends clearance. They asked him about his friends family, their jobs, if his friend ever took drugs, what he's like when he's drunk as well as stuff about his marriage and spending habits. Pp are correct, its mainly about the honesty of the applicant and if they could be blackmailed. The friends clearance was quite high he even told us he worked in a different city to the one he actually did for security reasons.