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Excluded from team meeting

44 replies

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 08:31

I'm unsure what to do about this. We have a regular team meeting which is held face to face in London. I'm on a contract rather than employed but my role is unique and considered integral to the team. I've been in role for three years, and I pre-date my line manager. My counterparts in other teams across the country (we have regional offices and a national team overseeing) are also included in team meetings and this is the model in the organisation, which is not for profit. We usually get an agenda in advance and it's also attached to the calendar invitation.

Two days before our last team meeting I received an email from a member of the SLT telling me the team meeting has been downgraded from a day to a half day, focussing solely on an upcoming event and that I was not needed to attend. This event is annual and last year I was fully involved in organising it and was a speaker. This year I haven't been included regularly but have attended some meetings about it as one of the areas it looks at is my unique specialist area and my input was needed.

I was surprised but obviously didn't attend. The impression given was that it was a last meeting to finalise minor details. There was no agenda on email or the calendar.

Then after the meeting on our team WhatsApp a more senior member of the SLT posted what a great meeting it had been and about having had rich discussions on all the topics.

I was confused and posted that if there was anything for me to action/follow up then to let me know and I was told notes would follow.

The notes arrived and there was a full agenda looking at some really important topics which I would reasonably expect them to need my input on. With that agenda it's not acceptable within our organisation for them to have excluded my role. There would be an expectation from our national team that I would be in those discussions.

I had not been sent an agenda and there is not one attached to the calendar invitation.

I messaged a colleague who is also a friend (as in we go out together out of work, discuss our personal lives etc) just asking if she had been sent an agenda and if it had included those items as I wanted to check if I'd missed something. I thought it was possible the topics had come up organically and were then discussed, but that it hasn't been planned.

She replied in a really odd way, saying she didn't want to reply on her personal mobile and would pick it up at work next week but that she had received the agenda a few days before ie at the same time I was uninvited, but couldn't remember what was on it. This is very unlike her, she's very organised and remembers everything. I think she didn't want to tell me so I backed off and wished her a good weekend.

There's background that I've been experiencing verbal bullying from my line manager for months now and was signed off sick with stress earlier year due to this.

I don't know how best to handle this with SLT. I'm obviously not going to ask my friend any more, I can see she feels awkward and I suspect she knows something she can't tell me. And ultimately she will prioritise her job over me of course.

Do I email my line manager? Or do I just note this down as another example of bullying and continue to plan my exit?

We do have HR but they are not helpful with contractors (or anything to be honest!) and we don't have a culture of involving HR in things.

I have a meeting with my manager booked soon anyway, as part of our regular meetings schedule, so I could bring it up then, or not.

I am planning to leave anyway, and I have posted about my issues in this role before under other names (I'm trying to stay anonymous).

OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 21/09/2024 08:43

Is there an end date to your contract? Ultimately, if they are employing you, they can end your contract along the terms of the agreement? Could they be looking at replacing you?

Not nice but this would certainly explain their behaviour.

user1473870459 · 21/09/2024 08:55

I would look for another job. It sounds toxic there with people hiding information and not sharing when you need to know as part of your role. I find management have a habit of not communicating important information to staff.

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 08:56

vivainsomnia · 21/09/2024 08:43

Is there an end date to your contract? Ultimately, if they are employing you, they can end your contract along the terms of the agreement? Could they be looking at replacing you?

Not nice but this would certainly explain their behaviour.

Well, they told me they are going to extend the contract 12 months (and then replace me after that period) but I haven't had the paperwork. However that's not unusual re later paperwork, I was with them for a period of about two years without an official contract at all after my first one ran out, and I know they won't want me to go before they recruit as a gap will be difficult.

I really just wanted advice on whether to address the exclusion from the team meeting in some way and if so how.

OP posts:
Cogsun · 21/09/2024 08:58

user1473870459 · 21/09/2024 08:55

I would look for another job. It sounds toxic there with people hiding information and not sharing when you need to know as part of your role. I find management have a habit of not communicating important information to staff.

It's totally toxic. I'm getting out for sure. I have a plan.

OP posts:
HappiestSleeping · 21/09/2024 08:59

This sounds to me as though you are at the end of your tenure there. Whether you are expecting it or not.

Whyherewego · 21/09/2024 09:00

If you are FTC then you have employment rights after 2 years by the way. If you are agency day rate it's possible they just wanted a staff only meeting?
I'd just outright ask them why you were not invited given the agenda looked very relevant to the role you're doing

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:03

Whyherewego · 21/09/2024 09:00

If you are FTC then you have employment rights after 2 years by the way. If you are agency day rate it's possible they just wanted a staff only meeting?
I'd just outright ask them why you were not invited given the agenda looked very relevant to the role you're doing

I'm on a day rate but it's significantly less than they are all on, although of course money is always a consideration.

I think the type of arrangement I'm on has been carefully crafted to get around me gaining employment rights, unfortunately. There was talk at one point of this becoming an employed role and others in my role in other regions are going to be employed in the near future, but that's not what my area wants to do (and this kind of variation is rife in the organisation).

OP posts:
DarkForces · 21/09/2024 09:03

Honestly I'd just leave it. No one has a right to attend meetings and I'm not sure what you think trying to force them to have you there will achieve

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:04

HappiestSleeping · 21/09/2024 08:59

This sounds to me as though you are at the end of your tenure there. Whether you are expecting it or not.

I'm expecting it, it's been obvious to me for a few months now, you don't bully staff you like do you? That's why I have an exit plan.

OP posts:
Happii · 21/09/2024 09:04

I'm on a contract rather than employed

I suspect you're coming to the end of your time there even if you don't know it yet. I don't think it's that bad tbh for companies to have meetings with permanent staff sometimes without contractors; presumably you're there to fulfil a particular activity rather than to be a bum on seat employee?

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:04

DarkForces · 21/09/2024 09:03

Honestly I'd just leave it. No one has a right to attend meetings and I'm not sure what you think trying to force them to have you there will achieve

I'm not trying to force anything. I'm not sure you really understood the situation but that's ok.

OP posts:
Happii · 21/09/2024 09:06

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:03

I'm on a day rate but it's significantly less than they are all on, although of course money is always a consideration.

I think the type of arrangement I'm on has been carefully crafted to get around me gaining employment rights, unfortunately. There was talk at one point of this becoming an employed role and others in my role in other regions are going to be employed in the near future, but that's not what my area wants to do (and this kind of variation is rife in the organisation).

If its been crafted to circumvent employment rights there are benefits for you to not being regarding as a member of the team as such in terms of tax, no?

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:07

Happii · 21/09/2024 09:04

I'm on a contract rather than employed

I suspect you're coming to the end of your time there even if you don't know it yet. I don't think it's that bad tbh for companies to have meetings with permanent staff sometimes without contractors; presumably you're there to fulfil a particular activity rather than to be a bum on seat employee?

Well actually no, I do fulfil a role that should be employed, it's a really weird set up. See my replies to others, I'm planning to leave as it's obvious they want to replace me but that's a recent thing, they were previously really happy with me. I've no idea what's changed.

OP posts:
DarkForces · 21/09/2024 09:07

What part haven't I understood? I disagree that not being included in a meeting is bullying and an unclear what you're looking to achieve

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:07

Happii · 21/09/2024 09:06

If its been crafted to circumvent employment rights there are benefits for you to not being regarding as a member of the team as such in terms of tax, no?

No. I have no rights, I get paid far less than everyone else, and I pay tax like everyone else.

OP posts:
Skipsurvey · 21/09/2024 09:08

probably financially they are excluding you as considering a different set up without you

Happii · 21/09/2024 09:11

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:07

No. I have no rights, I get paid far less than everyone else, and I pay tax like everyone else.

But if you were within IR35 (which presumably you aren't if you say you're not considered an employee) then you'd pay more tax than you do as a contractor who doesn't fall within it. It's the nature of these kind of jobs to be honest, I've never known anyone do the same job as a contractor for less money than perm staff though, probably better you move on!

Saschka · 21/09/2024 09:11

Cogsun · 21/09/2024 09:07

No. I have no rights, I get paid far less than everyone else, and I pay tax like everyone else.

Then why on earth have you stayed there for two years?

Whyherewego · 21/09/2024 09:12

Well sounds like either wad an employee only meeting or they are planning to get rid of you.
If you've got alternatives then that sounds like the best option

SomethingFun · 21/09/2024 09:18

There’ll be someone else on the agenda doing what you would normally do and that’s why your friend doesn’t want to share it with you.

Your contract sounds awful and they are taking the piss. I’m afraid non profit or not, you are learning the hard way that loyalty is one way and not rewarded in the workplace. Try not to give any more time/ headspace to them and put your energies into finding a new job somewhere else. I’ve done the you’re self employed but just not for tax purposes shit before and the only person losing out was me.

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 21/09/2024 09:24

@Cogsun look for another job asap. if you need to start straight away, so be it!! they are stringing you along and i actually doubt that your contract will be extended for another year anyway. get out before they need you for this event. try to leave them in the lurch. it looks like they are planning to leave you in the lurch, without a job, anyway!!

Invisimamma · 21/09/2024 09:31

You don't deserve to be treated badly. But I sounds like you have been overstepping the role of contractor and acting more like an e
employee. Perhaps they're trying to claw that back?

You're in a bit of a vulnerable position, freelancing on a day-rate but doing an employee role? When cuts need to be made in charities, contractors would usually be the first to go..maybe they are bringing your functions in house and that's what the meeting was about. It would not be appropriate to have you in that discussion, but probably should tell you if that's the case.

watchuswreckthemic · 21/09/2024 09:38

I've worked in teams when we have contractors in place. We have meetings our them sometimes as the context of the conversations does not need a non employee input.

I feel you've lost sight of what being a contractor is and maybe time to move on.

moose62 · 21/09/2024 09:40

I would leave it for now but bring your exit forward. If you have a plan and are intending to leave, then just do it.

Hoppinggreen · 21/09/2024 09:46

Is it an IR35 issue? I suspect that if they have you as a Contractor to avoid actually employing you and paying the appropriate taxes and giving you rights etc perhaps someone has flagged that you don't actually meet the SE HMRC requirements and this is a clumsy way of them trying to address that

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