A hard copy job reference - is this still a thing?

[NewspaperTaxis]

With CVs and job applications it's normal to say 'References available upon Request' - the idea being that if it comes to that, you give them your workplace's email address and they take it from there.

Is it normal practice now to ask for a written reference from your current job to keep/scan in and save? I'm doing some casual work and it sometimes occurs to me that it's best to have this on hand. There's scant chance of things blowing up but in any job it's not impossible, so surely better to have it ahead of that...

Or is a typed out reference - like a letter of introduction in old days - simply. not done any more? Does it look obvious that it may be an employee's way of getting ahead of an imaginary future misdemeanour? But in casual work it's not like a long-term permanent job where an employer legally sort of has to give you a reference if you've been there a while and you haven't actually fiddled the system. So you can do a few months' work there and still have 'no reference' - not easy to explain to a prospective employer.

Not common in my experience at all. Especially in the age of IT, it's easy to fake. I've only ever had to provide details for hiring managers to use to request references directly.

Yes, that sounds reasonable - but having been out of the workforce for a while, part of me still can't get my head around it, namely that you can have a showdown with your employer, it can be their fault, but a) You don't quite know you're going to have a showdown, it's not inevitable and b) If you do, they can withhold a reference from you, you can't ask for it in advance.

So once you get the sense there may be trouble ahead, you have to be the gambler - do you start looking for alternative employment while you can jump and still get a reference?

I mean, look at the whole Al Fayed thing and Harrods - okay, most people would think, right, if that's happening I'm off, see ya, I'm not waiting around. But others might think, well, let's not be hasty here... It's a job, at a prestigious place. Maybe it won't affect me... and job seeking can be depressing and fruitless. Why not wait until you have to act etc But then if you do that, you are acting from a weaker position and so on. Not saying every job problem is on a par with that, of course.

Nobody has 'references available on request' on their CV anymore. Companies use and external service to background check people and you type previous employers details into there. They then contact HR for a reference. Its juts basic yes they worked here from X to Y i believe now.

Yes, in that case unless the HR department were in cahoots with the very person you'd fallen out with, it wouldn't be in their interests to smear you. I suppose some firms that are small would still be able to do that, however - one reason it might be better to work for a larger firm. As is usually the case, other thread titles on Mumsnet suggest themselves when I created this one, and some employers pride themselves on saying how a former employee was a frequent absentee or stole money or so on - all well and good if true, but makes one wonder what they could get away with saying if they had an agenda, and what a person could do to protect themselves against that, if anything.

Dont do anything

Wait until offered and then they will tell you what info they need

This is very convoluted OP
you can't give a bad reference

Yes you absolutely can give a bad reference if it's factual (and not just conjecture). You cannot give a false reference.

Nobody has 'references available on request' on their CV anymore.

They certainly do.

You can also give a bad reference if it's factual. HR references are usually just "X was employed here between date 1 and date2 in role Y" but sometimesalso give a termination reason. ""X's job was terminated for gross misconduct."

OP I feel your pain.
You don’t trust the process that is now in place, so presumably there’s a reason for that.

Yes, companies can and do give bad references IME. My former boss stated on one that the person had an investigation for wrongdoing- this was true. He didn’t state that no wrongdoing was found. Job offer was rescinded.
Ex-colleague made a complaint, it was upheld. No comeback for boss. No job for ex-colleague.
It should just be job title & dates IMO.
DBS will unearth Safeguarding issues.

They can give a bad reference but it must be true. But they don't have to be fully transparent if they want to pick bad stuff and ignore good aspects.

But you can say you worked there but didn't leave on good terms so don't ask them for a reference-and prove you work there via payslips or p45. New employer may accept that.

DBS will unearth Safeguarding issues.

DBS will unearth criminal convictions. It won't unearth work disciplinaries that weren't criminal offences (i.e. no police involvement) and it won't raise anything they haven't been caught for.

Most companies if providing an electronic reference, will now say Joe Bloggs was employed as XYZ from date to date. Short and sweet. Avoids any issues.

Off the record (phone calls) people will talk and give the actual story especially if it's a close knit industry

As a hiring manager to be honest if someone gave me a written reference I'd not believe it. I want to reach out to the referee directly

It’s not up to an employer to list ‘suspicions’ - is that what you meant ?

Any grey area allows Managers to trash innocent peoples reputations. That’s the OP concern.

I've done quite a bit of recruiting "references available on request" or nothing on CV is usual.
Nobody provides a written reference

No, I mean a DBS will only unearth stuff they have been caught for. It doesn't mean there aren't safeguarding issues.