Pay & Conditions for 16 year old

[FestivalFoodwork]

There is a festival on locally and one of the food stall holders advertised on social media for staff to serve food. My daughter and her friend (both aged 16) applied and got the jobs.

On Thursday they started at 2pm for two hours “training” then the food van opened at 4pm. They worked until midnight including helping clean down after the van closed to customers.

Friday was also a 2pm start to prep food and again they worked until gone midnight. Today they were asked to be there at 10am with the van opening at midday and they expect to finish between midnight and 1am. Tomorrow is final day - not sure of those hours yet.

They have not been given any breaks (food stall is really busy when it’s open and there is only them and the owner). The owner told my daughter whilst daughter was chopping carrots as part of her “training” that she wouldn’t be paid for the training. I assume they will get cash at the end of the weekend - how do we best ensure they are paid correctly and fairly?

I am thinking the owner doesn’t know she is meant to give them breaks and pay them for training etc and am worried she will try and get away with not paying them fairly. They are exhausted almost to the point of tears so I really want to make sure that even though it will be minimum wage they get the right number of hours.

Yes, pretty sure they can work until 11pm.

Sorry, 10pm.

It’s illegal not to be paid for training or have deductions made from wages if it then brings your total hourly rate for the hours you have worked including training to below minimum wage

From ACAS

There are lots of 'shoulds' and advisories in acas advice.

However as mentioned earlier, practically it is very difficult to do much about it.

You can name and shame, possibly report them for paying under minimum wage - but you're not going to be able to prosecute it and no-one is likely to help young people do this.

There was a thread earlier about Shein and how terrible it was that they had been using under age workers.

We really need to address the exploitation in this country of 'young workers' also known as child workers. Many are working under unfair and illegal workplace practice and have very little redress.

Sorry OP - a bit off-topic, but my children's workplaces have been absolutely awful at times for ignoring the 'advice' for young workers.

I’ve just looked and think it depends on where you are working. Think retail is 2200 but hotels/pubs etc it can be 2300 but then you can’t work till 0700 the next day.

To employ anyone under 18 they need a licence from the council.

There are strict restrictions for example Under 18's are not allowed to work past 7pm - see lino below.

The vendor is breaking the law.

https://www.gov.uk/child-employment/restrictions-on-child-employment

Working tome directive also applies sp they have to have a minimum of 11 hours rest between shifts which means they cannot finish at 1am and be back at 10am regardless of age

@handpicked81 the op can report the employer for employing under 18s for too many hours, too late and not paying them properly. It might not help her daughter but could help protect others from being exploited. Sorry for looking up the info, not sure why that offended you!

I’d have no problem proving it to wasn’t unpaid work experience. The advert was on local FB pages and comms were by iMessage. Didn’t occur to me to tell them to check they were being paid for “training” or to ask for breaks. Assumed that would be automatic- lesson learned on that one.

I met the owner on the day the girls started as security let us in for a few minutes to see them in. Once the festival was underway there is no way past tight security without a ticket/wristband so not been in since. We just collect and drop near the main gate.

Girls won’t be paid until the end of the last day so we would naturally try and be let in at the end if they come to the car and say they’ve not been paid correctly. Best thing I hope is to prep them to show the owner their log of hours and what they have calculated pay to be (broken down) so they come across as prepared and not caught off guard by owner just saying she’s worked it out to be X and handing that over.

Now I have useful information from this thread I will share that with them (eg if on NMW then training time should be paid) so they hopefully feel confident enough to ask for what they are due.

The hours are also illegal for 16 year olds - as are the lack of breaks.

And I think you are supposed to get holiday even for short term work - it comes to 12.07% of hourly rate. I would report this business.

Out of interested why have posts been deleted? Was that done by the person that posted them or Mumsnet?

It was a previously banned poster, stirring up mischief I suspect.

Probably best sticking to employers who know the law around employing young ones.

DS has a job with the local authority. He is 17.

Most of the discussion here has been around minimum wage or less, which is very low for a 16 year old.

Did the girls not agree a hourly rate at interview?

Personally, I would make sure that the girls have the business owner contact details, (so that you can chase if necessary) and tomorrow morning ask what the rate of pay is and how many hours they have already clocked up. If the numbers are wrong and/or it is less than £10 per hour they walk out.

There are lots of retail outlets that pay 16 year olds adult minimum wage, with a generous staff discount, worth your daughter looking at these.

Yes they should be paid for training.
They should also have been given breaks, I thought minimum wage was changing so it was the same for everyone regardless of age?
If your daughter is looking for part time jobs I know of two people who are 16 who work for M&S and Tkmaxx, both are getting paid £12ph.

Ah that makes sense - their posts were quite odd.

I would not put it in to a sixteen year old to 'take the lead'. It sounds like a difficult situation and she needs support.

I would work out what she is owed in advance.

Minimum wage multiplied by the number of hours worked.

Then I'd add on twenty minutes for every five hours worked for the breaks.

There was no interview - it was four days casual work serving food at a festival. They were told the wage was minimum wage for their age so they knew in advance it was £6.40 per hour. I think the implication was approx 2 or 4pm to midnight but that was left vague as the owner said it would depend how busy it was.

it’s the poor treatment (not paying for “training”, no breaks and VERY long hours working literally non-stop (eg at least 14 hour shift today) that we didn’t expect.

I will do my very best to support her. Hard when we are not allowed into the venue. If it were another location (cafe etc) it would be much much easier.

Following advice on here I have listed the hours and start/end times for each day and have a running total ready which I’ve sent them via text message. Not that they have had time to read it!!

Can they really add 20 mins for each five hours - I thought the 20 mins breaks could legally be unpaid?

I would tell the festival organiser if they don't get paid properly. And I would post it on the official festival page online. The organiser will take a very dim view of the negative publicity. The vendor won't be asked back that's for sure.

That is a very good idea. If she doesn’t pay them for the hours due I will do so. Thank you.

- I thought the 20 mins breaks could legally be unpaid?

Yes, so do I but they didn't get them.