Wfh with a child. Is it fair?

[violetsparkle]

Employee wants to pick up their kid from nursery and then do 2 hours more work. Is this fair? There's no policy against it so is it just what's acceptable now? I don't know if I should approve it. I don't want to really but we're desperate for the staff so I'm not sure if I have a choice. Just want to give employee a heads up that HR might not approve it so they can consider alternatives.

But is she saying she d rather be in childcare rather than being at home with you working? Or is she saying she d rather you were just home and not working at all for school holidays, because they are 2 different situations

We'd have to look at it on a case by case basis my upstanding is eg just because you've allowed one person to work 8-4 doesn't mean you have to allow everyone if we need the 9-5 covered

I think it's okay - the kid might end up watching tv for a bit but that might be what they're doing anyway. A lot of non working parents likely do that same. If you like the employee and they work hard I'd agree to a trial period and review in three months. If you notice a difference in their work then you can tell them so - should keep them motivated to make it work as well

I think a 7 year old has very different supervision requirements than a nursery-aged child.

I would say it's not good for anyone, we have been doing something similar and I always end up either distracted, my partner is distracted, or our child is ignored. And working after he is in bed is not nice to be honest. Feels like burning the candle from both ends.
I am going to switch to finish work at 3pm from September as it's just fundamentally better to meet (adjusted) expectations in everything rather than feeling like you're failing at work, parenting and being yourself.
Having said that financial constraints may be affecting your report.
I think I would be inclined against it but only from my point of view as a parent in that situation!

Yes I think its the financial constraints meaning they still want the full time hours.

As I manager, I would let them do this as a one off (and I have a 5 year old so I get it and have done it myself). But expecting a toddler to sit quietly for 2 hours, 4 days a week, every week so she can work? Never ever going to happen.

Everywhere I've worked there's needed to be consistent treatment of all employees, each department making up their own rules wouldn't have been allowed. You can't leave decisions like that down to the vagueries of individual managers, imo that's a recipe for disaster

I wouldn’t agree to this. At nursery age the child will need lots of attention and supervision. You can’t do that and concentrate on work at the same time, she’ll be distracted one way or another.

There’s no way she’ll get back at 3:15 and start working immediately, unless she has someone else helping at home. Even then, the child will know she’s there and keep asking mummy for things. I had a reception aged child during lockdown so I know what it’s like. More recently a team member worked from home while her MIL looked after child. I constantly heard them in the background and could see her getting distracted on calls.

My now 9yr old is fine if she has to stay with one us while WFH, but we still only do this occasionally as it’s a pretty shit set up for all involved.

Are they ft and is this every day? Effectively they are unavailable to work for those two hours. Suggest a childminder or babysitter?

And the other question is when does the staff member actually have lunch?

I doubt they will skip lunch every single day. Human need for rest and food will take over.
There are laws over lunch and tea breaks for a reason. People cannot concentrate hours on end without a break. So they are likely to be having a fly half hour or informal breaks at other times

The more I think about it the more I'd say No. Sorry doesn't work for the needs of the team or the business.

I personally don't think they should be doing childcare and working for under school age children without someone else there is a supervisory role so say an older sibling 14 onwards or someone babysitting like a grandparent or student you know etc.

This isn't just about work, its a safety issue for the child.

All that needs to be said in any policy is that you are allowed to have children in the house but they must not be under the supervision of another responsible person.

I know mine were quite tired after nursery and after a cuddle and a snack just wanted to play on their own for a bit, watch some CBeebies, etc. I could have done 2 hours worth of work, sometimes over 3 hours taking a short break to give the DC a bit of attention.

Worth giving it a trial period, and maybe have the expectation that the 2 hours is done at some point in the afternoon or evening and not always at the same time, if that's possible for your requirements.

For all we know, this woman is the poster who started a thread about getting her neighbour's kid's friend in to play with their LO. Or has some other arrangement that we just don't know and actually are skirting the edge of discrimination to ask about. The question really is whether she can keep up with the requirements of the job under the arrangement. She is a grown adult woman who is very likely capable of assessing her own capacities and requirement and has managed to parent this child successfully without the relevant permissions from HR so far.

It's so disappointing on a parenting site to see people so utterly incapable of treating a mother as if she might be capable and competent at assessing both the needs of her role and her child and making adequate provision. The OP has already stated this woman is the top performing memeber if her team! Can we not imagine that the woman is capable to make these arrangements without HR wading in on who is allowed to be in her own house with her! If her performance dips by agreed measures, by all means walk it back, there is an agreed trial period! But saying no because you can't imagine how she is going to do it is actually dismissing out of hand this woman's proven competency.

Can you suggest to them that they get a stay at home wife instead? All the men at work who’ve done well in their careers have one of these and it really seems to free up their work time.

Also if you make such concessions for this employee you may find others asking similar and feeling aggrieved if you say no. Effectively they are really working 9-2:45. It is a legal requirement to take a minimum 20 minute break if you work over 6 hours.

no.
the employer should do a wfh assessment which includes a healthy screen and distraction free set up.

Everyone knows it never works like that. Nursery will be running late; child has a tantrum; child hurt herself and nursery want to chat; child is exhausted and moody (is this on a Friday?); child won’t walk and has to be dragged home shrieking; child hasn’t eaten anything all day and needs feeding at home. It’s just not feasible. Nobody can do these two things at the same time.

Is this someone who is returning to work and hasn’t done many nursery drop offs/pick ups yet?

It sounds like this is a request from an employee as a “best case scenario for the family”. If you say no they’ll have to think of something else: earlier start? Easier to drop off during a break than pick up. Partner sorts something out. Grandparent helps. Pay for longer hours at nursery.

As an employee i would ask but have no real expectation such a request would be granted.

Depend on so many factors.

Are they asking to clock off at 4pm, collect child and the. Work 6-8pm whilst a partner is at home.

Or collect child at 4pm and work 4.30-6.30pm whilst responsible for child.

I think the main question is why they want/ need to collect the child earlier. Can their hours be flexible or moved around so they don't need to?

She's returning from maternity leave so hasn't proved this will work.

It would have to be a firm 'no'

Maternity leave means a baby

If you were unlucky enough to find yourself in a tribunal you would likely lose the case if HR have had direct input into the decision. Judges hate when HR makes these decisions it's not our job, it should be down to the managers. You are right that HR is there to help ensure decisions are made consistently and policies should be in place to facilitate this. Consistent doesn't mean the same though, each department/team has their own challenges and have to make their own decisions on how they can best run and the people paid to run those teams are best placed to make decisions on what they can manage. You can't impose blanket decisions.

So if you have a clause in all contracts or a organization wide policy that you can't wfh alone with a baby that could be deemed illegal?

Luckily my children were much older when COVID hit so not an issue for me but it's crazy to me that anyone would allow that.

Ludicrous that you don't have a blanket policy that childcare must be in place for wfh hours.

You absolutely cannot work and look after a child. You'd be setting a precedent that would lead your company on a sliding route to hell.

Address the bigger issue of the lack of policy.

Well yes. But all I can do is ask HR about that. I can't make a policy