Redundancy - questions and help please

[Tab1eleg]

NC for this.

Can someone help please?

I was told this morning that my employee might (will) be closing my area of the business. I feel awful for my staff and myself obviously and I have no idea what the next steps are, what to ask, what to do etc.

I can’t see any reference to redundancies in my contract or in any HR policies on the intranet - I have worked there for 23 years so if I was ever told it is lost in the sands of time…

So a couple of questions

Are they any questions I should ask/ things I should do as HOD for my team in the first instance?

Where should I look for a redundancy policy I.e. what we might expect over and above statutory redundancy pay (if anything?)

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly

How does it work in terms of looking for and accepting new jobs? We have contracts we have to fulfill over the next 6/7 months which they will struggle to accommodate without me and my team doing our jobs but obviously we’ll all be looking for them from now? What happens if (god willing) we all get new jobs and leave before these contracts come in? Is that their problem or will we forfeit our redundancy pay if we leave before they close us down?

TIA

Call ACAS, as soon as possible!

Thank you - that’s good advice. I have read threads on here and heard of them and didn’t think of it till now.

My head’s all over the place.

I will call them first thing tomorrow and get some advice on next steps.

Looking at ACAS it looks like they can withdraw redundancy pay if we ‘choose’ to leave early - none of us are ‘choosing’ to leave. That seems unfair.

Our jobs are VERY VERY niche - if we do get new jobs we shouldn’t have to turn them down.

Sorry you're dealing with this unpleasant situation. Redundancy is a shock and can be very upsetting so give yourself some time to process it.

How much notice is your employer giving you? 6+ months? Or do you not know yet? The minimum stat notice period based on your length of service is 12 weeks.

If your jobs are that niche, surely you'd just be able to negotiate on start date with a new employer? Most employers will expect to have to wait at least 3 months for you to work your notice anyway - if you're senior, they might expect 6 months already. And by the time you'd gone through a job search and then recruitment process and negotiation you might have only a few months left to work anyway. I wouldn't jump too far ahead with speculative scenarios.

I'd be surprised if you got more than statutory redundancy. And if you do, it won't be in a policy because that would make it contractual and you'd be worse off from a tax perspective. But you can calculate the statutory amount online.

The purpose of redundancy pay is to support with the transition between jobs. If you find a new job so quickly that you want to give your employer notice and leave sooner, then you don't need that support which is why you wouldn't be eligible. Turning down a job in favour of a redundancy payout seems unwise if your job is niche, unless it's a particularly extravagant settlement above statutory - in which case you could calculate how long it would last versus how long it might take for another offer to materialise.

I do understand why it feels unfair to you because you wouldn't have wanted to leave otherwise, but it's not there to compensate people for that unfortunately. I would just focus on planning around it.

Talk to Acas in the morning, they're really good. Once you've got a clear picture of what to expect, what your rights are, etc it will probably make you feel a bit better because you'll feel more in control.

Thank you so much for your reply.

Sadly our jobs are niche in that it’s not that we are in a position of power with a new employer but that there are very few jobs - I think I’m one of 6 in Britain (it opens up a bit for my staff but not much) so all positions are filled if you know what I mean.

Yes we all have transferable skills but our specialism is a really small pool.

The notice period is what I’m trying to understand. My contractual notice is 12 weeks then it goes down to 8 and 4 for my team but they’re saying we’ll close in 7/8 months so what happens then?

From what you’re saying either…

We forego redundancy pay and get new jobs and they’ll be fucked with fulfilling their contractual obligations as we won’t be there to do it,

or, we stay, do the jobs and then take redundancy and try and find new jobs after?

Both options seem shit really

How many people will be made redundant? If it’s more than 20, then there will have to be a consultation period. That plus the notice period could easily take 6 months. The redundancy package might be decided during consultation (if it’s an enhanced package).

They might offer an enhanced package to try and encourage you/your team to stay there for the 7/8 months they need you for. Only you can decide if the maths makes sense on redundancy pay vs accepting another job earlier and leaving without it.

There are 10 of us.

I don’t know if consultation period will take a while or not?

Basically we’re a specialist division and the market for us has fallen, it might recover, might not, but the rest of the business (slightly related but not affected by our market conditions) is sound and they have decided to just concentrate on the one thing.

I don’t think I can do or say anything in a consultation that will save us. I can advocate for us but the alternative business is easier so I don’t think I’ll get anywhere.

So this is the kind of thing I need to know - thank you.

I want to advise my team to make the best choice for them. They are so dedicated, moral and loyal that I can see them staying to see through our contracts out of duty and doing their own legs because of it.

Is there a HR department you can contact?

I think middle option that you negotiate on start dates. And if there's only 6 posts for your role in the whole country, you probably won't get an offer on day one of your notice period - so why worry about that remote hypothetical scenario now?

In option 1, it's not your problem if they can't fulfil their contracts after terminating your division. Why is that bothering you so much given that they're terminating your employment?

They can give you more than statutory notice.

Consultation period doesn't really change anything so I wouldn't put pressure on yourself to try and influence it. It's paperwork.

I think that's probably one of the best things you can do for your team in a situation like this - make sure they look after their own interests.

The organisation has no loyalty to them or it would not be making them redundant, they (and you) mustn't screw themselves over out of misplaced loyalty to the organisation making them unemployed.

HR are only really there to ensure that the redundancy happens in a lawful way. They’re inevitably going to be on the company’s side, not your side. They should explain what is going on, but I wouldn’t rely on them to go out of their way on your behalf.

But they would be able to give you the policy and redundancy pay calculations as a minimum.

OP, redundancies occur when the roles no longer exist. Which isn't the case if you're still needed for these contracts.
You've only been told that the division will be closing, redundancies are just one step in the long process of winding down that part of the business. And will likely occur close to the end of these contracts.

So you won't have any leverage apart from the statutory minimum and whatever else the company chooses to pay.

I think it's a personal decision - whether to stay and gamble on getting good redundancy pay or not. Personally I'd start quietly looking now, it could take months to get another job anyway.

In option 1, it's not your problem if they can't fulfil their contracts after terminating your division. Why is that bothering you so much given that they're terminating your employment?

Thank you again @owladventure

It’s bothering me because we will, potentially, screw up our clients who haven’t done anything wrong and will suffer if we bail. We are vey close to our clients and we will all struggle with this.

The closure of our bit of the business is going to send shockwaves through our very small industry, it’s going to cause issues for our clients and again, we will all want to manage our relationships because that’s where our future employment is

I don’t trust our HR to give my team the best advice so I need to do that.

Given the situation I'd be pushing hard for retention bonuses plus redundancy. Then it is worth your while staying, you won't screw over the clients or yourselves.

Thank you @Tarantella6

I will look into retention bonuses. This is what I need to hear about.

I’m genuinely just trying to do the best for my team and the best for our clients - I have no beef with my employer. I’m sad but not angry (yet). I just want to know all the options so I can negotiate and manage it the best(worst) it can be

im in similar boat, at the moment the whole thing seems strange and we already know it will make the dept a skeleton crew, but as they say management knows best. or at least we hope they know what they are doing otherwise if the skeleton crew then leaves it seems it will make no one available to do their operations

Immediate Actions as Head of Department (HOD)

• Gather Information: Before discussing the situation with your team, obtain as much information as possible from upper management or HR. Understand the rationale, timeline, and scope of the redundancies.
• Communicate Transparently: Once you have clear information, hold a meeting with your team. Be honest about what you know and what you don't. Assure them that you will keep them informed as soon as you have updates.
• Support Your Team: Consider arranging meetings with HR for your team members to discuss their individual situations. Encourage them to reach out to HR for specific concerns or questions about their roles.

Questions to Ask Management/HR

• Redundancy Process: Ask about the formal process they will follow for redundancy. Will there be a consultation period? What are the criteria for selecting roles for redundancy?
• Redundancy Pay: Clarify if there is an enhanced redundancy package or if it’s just statutory redundancy pay. Given your long tenure, you may be entitled to more than the statutory minimum.
• Notice Periods: Confirm the length of your notice period and whether it will be paid in lieu of notice (PILON) or if you are expected to work through it.
• Support and Resources: Inquire about outplacement services, career counseling, or any other support the company might offer to employees facing redundancy.

Locating Redundancy Policies

• HR Intranet or Employee Handbook: Redundancy policies are typically found in the HR policies section of your intranet or employee handbook. If you can’t locate it, ask HR directly for the document or guidance.
• Employment Contract: Review your employment contract for any clauses related to termination or redundancy, even if they are vague.
• Consultation Process: If no redundancy policy is found, the company is still legally required to follow a fair consultation process, especially for long-serving employees like yourself.

Managing Job Searches and Contractual Obligations

• Job Search While Employed: You are legally allowed to search for new employment once redundancy is announced. Some employers may offer time off for interviews; check if this is an option.
• Resignation vs. Redundancy: If you secure a new job before your role is made redundant, you may forfeit your redundancy pay if you resign. However, some employers may negotiate a mutual agreement to allow you to leave early and still receive some redundancy compensation. Discuss this with HR.
• Employee Obligations: While you are still employed, you are generally expected to fulfill your duties unless otherwise stated by the company. However, once redundancy is announced, your employer may prioritize winding down operations or finding temporary solutions.

Things to Consider Moving Forward

• Financial Planning: Assess your financial situation, especially regarding statutory redundancy pay, savings, and any potential period of unemployment.
• Legal Advice: Consider seeking legal advice if the redundancy process seems unclear, unfair, or if you have specific concerns about your rights. Employment solicitors or local Citizens Advice Bureaus can offer guidance.
• Mental Well-being: Redundancy can be a stressful time, so take care of your mental health. Encourage your team to do the same and seek support if needed.

Another option for the business is to offer you/your team alternative roles within the business. They don't need to make you all redundant. Or perhaps they will offer a smaller number of alternative roles in the business that can be interviewed for so keeping a small group and making the rest redundant.

If they have mentioned the R word yet, could that be likely? That way they also maintain some capability if the market for your team's niche skillset returns?

Thank you @MaJoady yes that’s been mentioned and could potentially work out for some of my team, again it’s making sure I know what ‘equivalent’ means in these circs as in my plumber can plumb anywhere but my spark can’t necessarily - not a good example but some people could work elsewhere (equivalent but less happy) and some really don’t have equivalent jobs to go to

Check your household insurance policy (and get your team to do the same) to see if you have legal cover that would cover you for any advice/action you might need to take (e.g. reviewing redundancy documents, appealing against redundancy etc.)