Have you ever had to dismiss someone?

[ElTortilla]

What was the reason?

My manager has talked about the possibility of me dismissing someone in my team, which I've never done before and the thought fills me with dread.

Came very close to it recently, but they quit first.

Id make sure that you are getting support from HR, make sure you really understand the company process etc and keep extensive notes.

Yes a few times. The key thing to remember is whilst you may be upset doing it, it is worse for them. So don't say things like "I feel bad doing this". I think quicker is easiest "I'm sorry but it is not working out for us and I'm going to have to let you go."

Write out what you need to say, be calm and assertive but still be personable. It’s a tough message to deliver and tough for the person receiving it.
Just stick to the facts.

Do it fast and don’t get drawn into dialogue.

After you’ve done it they need to leave. Best to do it at the end of the day.

Yes, the first time I cried afterwards but it got easier. I had to dismiss 14 people one month. As long as you know you have followed correct procedures then you know it is their poor performance or behaviour that had lead to this.you are not sacking them. They brought it in themselves by rule breaking or being unable to meet KPI.

One girl said to me. I can't believe you are firing me for eating a pasty. No Bianca it's the other 4 things that you did that lead to a reprimand, a verbal warning, a written warning and a final written warning that got you fired. The pasty on its own would have been insignificant.

Unfortunately many times. People can react very differently so be prepared for all kinds of responses. Anger, despair, resignation and work with HR for the right way to respond. The most asked question I get is 'why me and not so and so?'.

If it's just you in the meeting do not be tempted to tell the person anything that might be used against the company later e.g I didn't want to do this but x made me etc. Or any information about other people's roles.

As PP says don't make it about you. You can say you're sorry to have to do it but not how you feel.

It's always unpleasant, I don't think I'll ever not dread it but sometimes it has to be done.

Yes. The member of staff had a drink problem and refused all help/ referral. It was stressful and sad.

Yes, lots of times my own staff or as the decision maker in a conduct hearing. Make sure you've followed the appropriate policy meticulously, most allow plenty of opportunity for people to salvage things outside of gross misconduct, with ordinance improvement plans, additional support and training, so I've never felt bad if it gets to the point of dismissal.

Please make sure you have someone objective there, a minute taker if not hr , doubt level yourself open to questions about what you've said or not said

Yes, several times. Sometimes it’s easier than others.

Reasons have included: poor performance, lying and upsetting other members of staff, fraud and most recently a lack of work (these aren’t all UK people and different laws applied)

My advice would be to prep carefully in advance, try to get to the point quickly, be aware of the next steps, ensure you have someone in with you (ideally HR)

Thank you all for your words of advice. It's worse as I know this person outside of work.

They're argumentative to me and often thinks their way is the absolute best way. They've said shit things about the (good) work I've produced too.

That's tough. My first one was a guy I was secretly seeing! But he was warned for lateness three times and fourth time was a firing offence. We laughed about it afterwards but I felt terrible.

I'm an HR Director, so yes.

Some are easier than others. There have been times I've had a little cry after for some really tough ones. I hate redundancies. Others I've been glad to see the back of them - I'm particularly thinking of the nasty man who thought it was funny to give female colleagues a score out of ten for their boobs and refer to them by that number rather than their name...

For every dismissal though I have 4/5 frank conversations with people to 'consider their options' jump before you're pushed

Many years in management so have had to dismiss quite a number of people over the years.

It's not nice but they all deserved it. Mostly gross misconduct but a few for poor performance.

Much harder is making people redundant because then you have to dismiss decent people who've done nothing wrong.

Yes, for wilfully sending out misleading information be a sue she couldn't be bothered to update the stock in the office and then lied about it.
Looking back she had MH issues specifically hoarding and massive insecurity but I had given chance after chance and was done carrying her when the rest of the team were working very hard.
She had been there a long time so got a decent package and had had multiple performance management opportunities from my predecessors. She was heartbroken and I did find that hard.

Yes, quite a few over the years.

It'd important to agree with your manager/HR when you are doing it.
Decide beforehand if they are being walked off or you want them to work their notice. If the former, ensure that any computer access is removed from them while you are doing the deed.
Remember boring stuff like return of company assets, id pass etc.
If you are worried about the reaction, take someone else with you.

Many years ago someone picked up a desk and threw it at me when I fired them (he missed). I learned a few things from that one 🤣

@ElTortilla In the scenario you describe it should not be you who actually makes the decision regarding whether they are dismissed or not. You appear to be a witness. They could easily say it’s a vindictive decision and appeal. You need to offload this to a more senior manager. Then your witness statement is taken into consideration along with the misconduct policy and record of employment.

Im assuming this is gross misconduct. Are you sure it fits your company policy for gross misconduct/final warning and dismissal? Have you spoken to HR who should be convening the Disciplinary Hearing? Where I have worked you would never ever dismiss an employee on your own. Have they been offered representation? Have you looked at ACAS guidelines? Have they been given the case against them and how can they state their case?

Yes. I have dismissed two people. One on capability after numerous attrmpts at training etc. One on grounds of ill health and not being at work for 286 days. Work a week then go sick again. Took notes in a case of inappropriate behaviour by a school staff member.

By the way, reducing staff numbers is redundancy. Totally different from dismissal for gross misconduct,

Yes. Twice now for poor performance. It is grim but what helped me was:

Knowing I had talked to them about their performance several times and still no improvement

Knowing that it is far worse to NOT act. Poor performers have a disproportionate impact on those who are doing their jobs so it is your job as a manager to deal with this sort of thing. You will be thanked and respected for it by others.

I do work for a fairly no nonsense US company which also helps because HR swing in and take over pretty quickly. And it is better than my days in the charity sector when no one was ever let go for poor performance 😵‍💫