Male staff - constructive criticism

[FrozenLimeMargarita]

Just a vent because it blew my mind.

I am doing a mentorship thing at the moment where I am sitting in with a completely unrelated team to what I normally do for a job and I spent the whole of yesterday gobsmacked.

My role for the day was to sit in on staff feedback sessions (permission had been provided) all in all I watched 6 members of the management team 3 men and 3 women conduct these sessions 121 with a variety of staff of differing grades throughout the whole day.

The format is a regular and documented company-wide prescribed process. Feedback is presented in a very set format. There are no surprises as feedback is discussed throughout the year. All of the management team stayed within the process and feedback was delivered constructively inside the prescribed format. There was very little difference in delivery.

My takeaway from the whole thing was how aggressively men (not all men but enough to make it a trend) responded to the feedback delivered by the women managers whereas, on the whole, they accepted the same level of feedback from the male managers with no challenge.

I know there are loads of variables, level of feedback to the nature/grade of role, the department dynamics and individual personalities - but it did seem more persistent across all the meetings that the feedback would automatically* *be challenged, even mildly, if presented by a woman rather than a man.

I wait with bated breath to see if the pattern persists today.

Very interesting observation. What do you mean by aggressive?

Interesting isn't it. I notice this at work too - my female team members listen and it's easy to coach them, whereas some (not all, but enough) of the men I manage will argue back and challenge it, and it ends with an "agree to disagree" rather than a constructive "learn, grow and progress".

I actually gave one feedback for his end of year about what a hindrance his inability to listen to feedback is! Another I was passing on some not so flattering feedback from an external stakeholder and he openly ridiculed me.

I used to work somewhere last year where the culture was full of misogyny. There were men there who would be outright aggressive and intimidating if a woman said anything other than "fuck me you're marvellous".

Depressing but not surprising. Please feed this back up the line. Do you think your organisation will do something about it?

At the risk of saying NAMALT I'm a very senior academic and have mentored and given formal feedback to plenty of both men and women who don't respond aggressively but I could also name a fair few misogynists who would never ask me for feedback in a million years.

It was of a theme but all followed a path with little variation:

The first stage is always something along the lines of 'I refuse to accept what you say is valid' followed by 'You better take this back or there will be consequences' normally finished with some form of subtle threat about going above them and then they would be in trouble.

For example - totally valid feedback about a process that was not followed which caused a complaint from the vendor and another manager. The feedback was balanced and constructive. It explained the issues, the effect it had, what was expected going forward, and why - it was not in the form of a reprimand. This feedback was presented to a number of people involved.

most accepted the feedback as valid. but there w=ere several variations of the below:

'That account has been doing fine I don't see why YOU are making a fuss. I can't see that this has had an impact at all and it's always worked well for us to do it that way. With that in mind, I don't think YOU are making a fair representation and YOUR opinion should not be reflected in my feedback. Does the Senior Manager know about this? I think he would be very disappointed and there will be some strong feelings about how YOU have handled this should I have to be escalated to him which I will be inclined to do if the feedback is not removed'

I highlight the 'yous' because the in the male led meetings the men used 'we' more - 'i agree we need to do better' 'We shouldn't have stepped outside the process' 'We will make sure that happens' in the woman led meetings is 'you have said this is wrong' 'you thisnk we need to do better' 'you are asking us to make this change'

(I have only noticed that today)

So they're making the situation with women personal and the scenario with men is professional. The woman's feedback is treated as an invalid opinion and the men's feedback as authoritative and valid.

They seem to take it as a personal affront that someone of lesser status to them has the audacity to point out areas of improvement. The threatening nature of their response is reminiscent of a father chastising a child: Take it back or there'll be consequences.

It's infuriating that women are still being disrespected and infantalised in the workplace.

Interestingly, I was asked to look at the process itself and how it was being used. No one has sat in all the meetings with all the managers before.

After the final meeting yesterday, I went a bit into focus overdrive and compiled a whole load of stats on the meetings with a focus on objections. (which was NOT what I was asked to do)

I have strongly highlighted that this is in no way a great data sample and there are way too many variables..... but just putting side by side men/men against men/woman objections is a huge variation in numbers and is a noteworthy number.

These stats do not track with women/men or woman/woman. The only data anomaly to that is women/women in a senior position where there was a small increase from base. Men across all grades raised objections equally.

I, of course also did the analysis of what they asked - but they are going to get a a bit of a surprise add-on to my feedback.

As it is not my area I've not made suggestions but just in case they ask I have been trying to think of how to resolve the issue. I think recording objections centrally for pattern spotting and maybe having a two-person mixed panel for feedback? Maybe adding a step to the process that doesn't allow an objection at the time. Only as part of a second formal review?

However, while I see the benefit of a two-person mixed panel it is inefficient and would double the review time and also just smacks of having to have a male coworker on hand to validate and legitimise the female manager's feedback and that irks me. The same for a formal review.

I might just say that as I am not familiar with the area as a whole it's not for me to offer a solution and try to duck out that way.

I have observed this at work too OP.
And in personal relationships, friendships etc. Men leap to defend, deflect and deny, women back down. I think there's a million ways to explain this, but I think this in itself explains the last couple of years of 'not all men'. There's something going very wrong somewhere where men cannot take feedback from women on a personal level, or even at a population level when faced with stats

I have a couple of ways of mitigating it.

Recorded meetings where any aggression or threats can be taken up by senior management. It can also be used in training staff on unconscious bias and how to speak to colleagues in a courteous manner.

Training on unconscious bias, professional behaviour and how to take feedback.

Objections to feedback is to be given in writing where any aggression or threats can be dealt with.

The women giving feedback are coached in strategies to stop aggression and nip it in the bud.

I find this too. One colleague is particularly bad. He'll ask my opinion on something, and if I don't say "that's absolutely amazing" he becomes very argumentative.

I take constructive criticism from him all the time. 🤷🏾‍♀️

I wonder if you’re having a McNulty moment? By this I mean that this is a moment that has fallen into your lap that you cannot ignore and even though it’s not your responsibility, this is something that you have to highlight and seek to improve. (McNulty was a character from the wire, an oddly moral character and deeply flawed but famous for giving a fuck about things when it wasn’t his turn). Have you spoken to the women that gave the feedback?

I am not due to wrap up this part of my visit until Friday. I have run with this a little and have picked out a random sample of the staff ostentatiously to 'review the process' but while doing a little interview with them have asked about how they felt the meeting went overall and what was gained from the meeting.

Weirdly several of my randomly selected were part of the 'heavy objectors' group and they stated they were happy with the meeting. On gentle probing, they seemed to have no recollection of any friction, objections or disagreements whatsoever. It is like they have collectively rewritten the meeting to have been entirely amenable and just routine.

I am intrigued! Are they just playing up to the fact that they know I am doing a report on the process and saying what they think I want to hear - or is it a reflection of the fact that the need to object is a knee-jerk reaction so is not really a conscious thought process.

My first instinct would be to assume the men don't notice they are behaving this way, especially if all of them from your random selection of 'heavy objectors' don't seem to recall their behaviour. Because it's normal to them.

I really like the pp's advice to record meetings and offer unconscious bias training, but that has to come from the c-suite to have any lasting impact. How much influence do you have with them in your organisation?

Im so not surprised. One of the reasons its hard for women as managers

It’s possible that this is an entirely normal meeting to them a they see ‘arguing’ as ‘discussing’ and part of a normal workday.

It's the body language. My male report sits back with crossed arms and a scowl. Even though he is observably worse than his female counterparts, he wants better feedback. So exhausting.

I'm saddened but not surprised by your findings, incl. The men being oblivious of it afterwards (although I must say I can think of a few female employees like this).
A good task could be to get staff to listen to two (fake? Anonymised?) recordings of 2 meetings, one good one bad, and get them to reflect on both.

I wish I was surprised but I’m not at all. I’m not in the workplace (severe chronic illness and disability) but I think almost all men do this - treat women as kids and think their ways of doing things are wrong. As an example from last week - female ambulance crew asked what help I needed, did exactly as I asked, were respectful. Male ‘friend’ asked to help after a fall. I ask him to do a simple thing which makes it safe and possible for us both - ‘oh no I won’t do that’. Proceeds to lecture me on the danger of injury (none) then hauls me up by my arms, almost dislocating my shoulder. Men simply DO NOT respect women as having valid ideas, feelings, thoughts, knowledge or intellect!