No HR and we are all in a panic! Any advice welcomed

[Pomollo]

I work for a small office of 6 people and have done for many many years, the company is set up to facilitate the career of one person (our boss)

We all work really well as a a team no real hierarchy and feed back to our boss regularly as they travel a lot.

For many many years that’s worked really well and we’ve supported them through so many amazing projects and although it’s stressful we all love our varied jobs and see the team as an extended family.

only in the last year things have gone from bad to worse. Their personal life is in flux and it feels like they are taking it out on the working team, they now threaten to fire us whenever things are getting stressful, they forget important conversations when we review projects and accuse us of not being thorough even though we have the evidence to show otherwise.

I used to love my job 😔

but we don’t have HR available so I’m really at a loss as to know what my rights are if they decide on a whim to fire us all and close the business. It might just be a threat but even that is bad enough.

I’m so stressed out I can’t sleep with the thought of what Monday morning will bring

advice gratefully received

HR is there to protect the company, not the employee.

Your legal rights of employment dont change if there is or isnt a HR department.

Hope it gets resolved for you soon.

@BumblebeeBum by Legal Rights of employment, do you mean that they have to give us notice and a reason ? That we can’t just be fired ?

who would I ask for advice on that without HR available ?

ACAS. They can't give individual advice but they can tell you what your rights are.

You should have an employment contract that sets all this out.

Even if you don't have a formal contract, you have statutory rights and if say your boss decides they don't need/want the office function you provide and fires you all, this could be classed as being made redundant and you might be entitled to a statutory redundancy payment based on years of service.

https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/redundancy-pay

As 'HR' this only partly true. Yes, our job is to protect the company from risk aging from employment. Sometimes protecting the company is telling the boss they're being an arsehole and that they need to do better.

OP, ACAS but my advice would be to have a frank conversation with your boss about their behaviour, the impact and how you feel - you could all write a joint letter if it helps focus it (and so no one chickens out) for a meeting.

Nothing the OP describes is a redundancy situation.

IF she were fired it would likely amount to a potential unfair dismissal claim. Statutory notice- based on the OP having worked many many years there is one week for every full completed year of service, to a max of 12 weeks.

This boss is a threat to his/her own business. It sounds as if it all needs to come to a head.

Maybe the team of six can put their heads together to suggest a plan for going forward and for asking how, as a team, you can help so that he/she can be reassured of the loyalty and commitment you all represent, reminding the boss that this is a massive asset to the business that is currently being seriously eroded. I’m sure that collectively, there will be ideas to help move past this.
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Is there anybody in the team who is senior or at least been there longer or more capable of approaching the boss to explain how his/her conduct is affecting you all? How threats and accusations from the top with an absence of proper leadership are extremely detrimental to the business, especially when you all used to love your work under his/her direction. And how you are all worried for your jobs.

If the boss can’t be persuaded to re-focus on the business and improve communication and management style then you all really have no alternative but to jump ship after finding new jobs or waiting it out until the business collapses.

If the boss is ignoring the business to such an extent that new projects aren’t being sought, then your jobs are going to become non-existent anyway.
I would start looking for a new job today as well as having one last attempt to communicate the team’s concerns.

If the business closes you are redundant. Staff are close to the front of the creditors' queue.

However, you no longer enjoy the job and it appears the writing is on the wall. Time to find a new job IMHO.

@LAMPS1 spot on advice there.

Thanks all

I like the idea of a joint letter, face to face would be the best option I think I do better talking and explaining calmly, but getting everyone on board is definitely a must.

and yes I do think it would be a case of unfair dismissal given we are all working without fault under very different/ difficult circumstances to previous years. I feel totally bullied and it’s so sad.

I’ll contact ACAS and see what they say. Thanks that hadn’t occurred to me.

im just so stressed as I’m the main breadwinner in our house and my husband picks up the childcare where I can’t, (long hours and often without notice) we’ve also just moved house so the mortgage is a big factor in my feeling the extra pressure at the constant threat of summery dismissal.

I know they don’t “owe” me a job and closing their business down is really their choice. I’m just so sad that the 20 + years I’ve worked there can break down so quickly 😞

just hoping for a chance to have a frank discussion.

Sounds stressful.
All important conversations followed up with an email briefly outlining what has been said/decided.

ACAS for your rights.

Do you have disciplinary/grievance procedures? Surely by law you have to?

I guess I also feel a bit too old to be looking for a new job (45) and my main skill set is working with this team and seeing what everyone needs to function. I know them inside out and can predict with huge accuracy what will be the required in each project, very specific and not very transferable.

They can't dismiss you without your notice (or pay in lieu of notice) unless they can show gross misconduct.

If they dismiss you without following a proper process and without good reason, that is likely to be an unfair dismissal. You would be able to make a claim against the employer. Note that, if it is a limited company, any claim would be against the company rather than the boss.

If they make you redundant and then immediately take on someone to fill your role, that is also likely to be unfair dismissal.

An HR trainer told me that Citizens Advice is a great website for employment issues: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/

(Change location if not in England when you go on)

Hi OP

Have worked for a few smaller businesses, this scenario is familiar. Your employment rights don’t change if you don’t have HR, and you can’t just be fired without warning or reason.
If your company did this you could threaten legal action.

As a side note.. HR works for the company interests, not employees.

You think 45 is too old to look for a new job? …huh?!

They can presumably close the whole business though?

You can literally google UK employment rights, and read up.

45 is definitely not too old to look for a new job! Look at the skills you have - project management, budgets, strategy etc from what you’ve said and update your CV, I am sure this all looks great. Update your LinkedIn profile too. I always find this makes me focus on actual achievements all of which will make you look very employable. A new role could be daunting but also refreshing after the stress of your current role the last year or so.

HR would be protecting the company by advising managers that they are behaving unacceptably. Staff need to be happy to perform well in their roles.

If the business closes down, you are redundant and should be paid your redundancy pay and notice - check your contract of employment as to whether you have any entitlements which are greater than the statutory amounts. If proper processes are followed there would not be a claim for unfair dismissal.
If the Director puts the company into an insolvency process, a government scheme (Redundancy Payments Service) would pay you the statutory amount (these are minimal).

This is on the money thank you for taking time out to write on this thread

we had a brief meeting this morning between the staff and decided that we all need to log these incidents and take great care in noting conversations so that nothing is left open to interpretation after the fact

I do still love my job and my team and there are many great projects on the horizon we are still (for now) excited to be working on

I think helping our boss to re-focus on the business is the way to go while still being realistic and simultaneously looking to see if other opportunities are out there for an oldie like me.

we don’t have a grievances procedure so it’s up to us to sort it.

It is when your senior position is down to how well you work with specific people and I don’t really have formal training recognised outside of this workplace as I just learnt in the job

I worked in a small business for just over a year where the owner was very up and down and it makes things really stressful! Like you I had a great relationship with the team but I decided it wasn’t worth the stress and found another job and am much happier.

Your skills sound very transferable and I would spend some time writing down your key skills and how you have shown them in the work you do and get your CV and LinkedIn updated just in case,

Oh and I’m 46 and just getting my career back on track after taking 10 years of less qualified, part time local roles due to a poorly child. You’re definitely not too old!!