Think I’m getting fired

[Losingmyjob24]

I messed up. I have a meeting at work and if I cant explain good reason I ‘may be terminated’.
I’ve never had any issues at work before, I’m well respected, have an excellent track record in my field, I’m good at my job and an integral part of the leadership team. However I messed up and missed a shift due to putting my holiday dates in wrong. They were wrong already due to a complicated system and I did fix them but obviously not correctly meaning I missed a shift.
Would it be a good idea to take my resignation and if being fired to ask if they will accept my resignation instead so that Ive not got being fired on my record? I’ve been suspended for over a week prior to the meeting so I definitely think I’m being fired. There have been some money issues in the business and lots of cuts have been made. This definitely gives them good reason to get rid of a big wage easily. I’ve spent this least week applying for jobs and have a few interviews lined up. I just need to sort this asap.
There was a previous issue around 3 years ago when I was on holiday and the rota was done and I had to call up and say I’m not back until the following day (they had me in for a shift on the day I was flying home). They are saying on the documentation sent out that this isn’t the first time so it’s gross misconduct. We are a small company and I always tell my manager when I’m away, the online system for booking is so bloody confusing. You cant just book 2 weeks off you have to do it in blocks missing days for ur days off and I’m obviously an idiot and can’t do it right. I’m really mad at myself and spiralling, feeling sick with worry but I can’t take this back. There is nothing I can do. In hindsight I should have triple checked before going off but that’s all I can think of. It was my boss who picked up they were initially wrong which was why I changed them!

Contact ACAS for advice before doing anything.

Are you in a union?

I'm guessing the answer might be no, since such a low amount of MNetters are.

But if you are, contact your rep immediately.

It really depends on what you do. If you missed a shift as air traffic controller then that's actually very different to missing a shift as a receptionist or whatever.

Agree with PP re contacting ACAS or your union especially as you've worked there for 2+ years.

Something that happened three years ago cannot be taken into account, 12 months is the usual length of a warning - did you get a warning, when did it expire?

Doing something twice doesn't make it gross misconduct either.

I suggest you go to the meeting, keep your mouth shut. Anything they ask you that isn't a fact directly related to this incident say "I'm not sure, I'll need to think about that and come back to you", then take advice once you know what they're thinking.

It really depends on what you do. If you missed a shift as air traffic controller then that's actually very different to missing a shift as a receptionist or whatever.

Not to a company that's looking to get rid of staff without having to pay redundancy.

It's all the same.

It depends entirely on their policy amongst other things, not on whether they're an air traffic controller or a receptionist.

I’m not in a union. I work in hospitality and it’s a small family run business with a few restaurants/cafes. As I’m a supervisor they are saying it’s leaving them without a keyholder for shifts. I’ve worked there for 7 years this is the only issue I’ve had and it’s been since they have grown and brought in this new system. They have recently closed one branch though due to money issues because things just aren’t as busy anymore. My workplace is often still busy but on an odd occasion we are lucky to make enough to cover wages and overheads.

No I didn’t get a warning it was just a case of me apologising and saying it wouldn’t happen again, little did I know it would. They already had me in at what I thought was the start of my shift and was told then I was suspended until they decided what to do. So I assume at this next meeting I shall be fired. I am the only member of the management team who isn’t family and was last in. They have cut right back on all staff except management in the last year.

That's not how employment law works. It isn't that easy to fire people, especially not after 7 years. Please contact ACAS. After that, do you have access to any legal advice through home insurance/(partner's) work perks?

And for future reference, just because it's a small employer doesn't mean you can't become a union member yourself.

Your employers sound like total arseholes. I'm so sorry this is happening, but you definitely deserve better.

Are you going to this meeting alone? Have you been given an opportunity to be accompanied? Who is chairing the meeting and who will be there?

Who issued the letter? Have they HR working for them?

My opinion would be they can't factor in the incident 3 years ago - it wasn't dealt with formally and an even a final written warning can't last that long. Did you have anything documented about it? Do they have a disciplinary policy written anywhere?

Definitely contact ACAS - they're not following correct process here. It doesn't matter who works there or how many or what financial difficulty they're in, UK employment law applies to them too.

Adherence to ACAS recommended procedure is what an employment tribunal in UK uses as their benchmark. This includes several clearly defined steps, at each stage ensuring the employee knows what's happening and has the opportunity to 'course-correct'.

For example
1 employee commits some error or a repeat of an error
2 employer gives them their first informal warning and potentially puts them on a Performance Improvement plan (PIP).

3 Employee doesn't improve, meeting put in place and it is determined they haven't met the PIP requirements
4 employer puts things on a formal footing with a meeting to put the employee on notice of termination. even at this stage, employee has the opportunity to to appeal and show how they did meet PIP requirements

There could be a negotiation at this stage, eg leave by agreement, neutral reference etc.

what you have described is what many many employers try to do, which is to fast-track the Employee through the ACAS / aka stated company policy, skipping steps and preventing a fair process, just to get them out of the business.

First principles, don't resign, instead give ACAS the details of your 3 year and current problem with your annual leave and ask for their assessment as to whether they are reasonable in trying to terminate you. They shouldn't combine the past and present holiday issue into one reason to get rid of you.

go into the meeting with your head high. Be conciliatory, don't slag off their holiday booking system, say it was a genuine mistake and that you are very sorry for the inconvenience. If they try to terminate you, you can choose to accept that they want you out, but negotiate a good deal eg immediate termination in exchange for 3 months' pay as a settlement agreement (which will be tax free, so gives you time to find a new job so you have a cushion there) plus a neutral reference giving your years of employment and job post title, or you can object and say you want to find a way to retrieve the situation.

dont resign, by all accounts your misdemeanour is human error and really trivial, and you shouldn't be facing the sack. They're obviously trying to avoid redundancy, but they cannot be above the law on this. Plus you could go to tribunal for age discrimination if you can prove your age is a factor in their decision, eg, if there are younger employees who are given more leniency than you.

I think they're trying it on with you.

Missing a shift twice in 3 years does not constitute gross misconduct?

You'd walk all over them for unfair dismissal at ET if they sack you.

Do not resign.

If your employment does end, they should push you, you shouldn’t jump. If you resign it will be so much harder to argue this in a tribunal.

As the facts appear you have a strong case, 7 years loyal service and they are saying this holiday cock up is gross misconduct and bringing up a historic issue! Pull the other one.

They are skint and trying to avoid paying you a minimum 7 weeks redundancy pay and minimum 7 weeks notice.

The fact it would be cheaper and more convenient for them to sack you doesn’t entitle them to label a minor cock up as gross misconduct. It shouldn’t have happened, perhaps you should get a warning but dismissal is too severe in the circumstances.

Suspending you is a massive over reaction too, employment tribunals don’t like unnecessary suspensions. Are you being paid while suspended? You should be on full pay.

Attend the hearing and do participate in it, including advancing the above argument. If they sack you it sounds like you have a good case. If they don’t sack you, hold out for redundancy if you can bear to.

If they do sack you, check your house and car insurance in case you happen to have legal expense insurance.

Don't resign. Wait and see what happens in the meeting. This is not gross misconduct in any place I've ever worked. It's a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes now and then.

Recruitment in hospitality is hard at the moment and if they let you go over something so minor they'd be mad. The whole thing about key holders blah blah is silly as how would they manage if you called in sick? They must have a plan for when key holders aren't available at the last minute.

They sound annoyingly dramatic and I'd let them have their moan at the meeting and carry on as normal but look for another job if working for them is as stressful and dramatic as this situation makes them sound!! Good luck.

I came on to say don't resign, but that's come across loud and clear already!
Good luck, take notes in the meeting, ask for anything they tell you in writing too then seek advice from ACAS and an employment lawyer

You are the only non family member of a family run business?
This is why they want you out!
What you have done is not a sackable offence !

They’ve cut staff but not management, yes, because all the managers are family!!

You should have asked for help if you find the system confusing. But this is not gross misconduct. Do not resign. Thoroughly research your rights and do not go to that meeting unprepared. Take someone with you.

It’s not a sackable offence, if it had happened at ours we would have laughed and told the manager to check the holiday property rather than relying on staff to do it themselves.

im surprised they have suspended you .

hospitality are crying out for experienced workers , you could easily walk into another job

All the above are good suggestions - ACAS etc. it is usually cheaper to “manage someone out” of a business than pay redundancy payments. My advice would be to contact a solicitor specialising in employment law. I appreciate this could be costly but it will be money well spent if you get your due redundancy pay and leave their business as a “good leaver” - invaluable. They are certain to not be following the company process - most companies don’t and that’s why they lose at tribunals - so you will be in a strong position. An employment lawyer will achieve the best outcome for you probably without the need of a tribunal and may be able to get their costs re-imbursed too. If you don’t know of any, contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau and they will recommend one.

The important thing is to not let a dismissal affect your chances of future employment - and a solicitor should do this and be able to negotiate a better outcome for you. They will believe they have the upper hand. They won’t have if you have decent representation on your side.

This must be very upsetting and worrying for you. Seek advice as soon as you can and before the next meeting. You won’t regret it.

I think they’ve thrown the gross misconduct in there to justify dismissing you without following correct procedures which is really poor form (and won’t hold up).

Before the meeting, I would request a copy of the company disciplinary procedure which should list what they consider gross misconduct to be (if not, request that too).

Ask for a copy of your contract; tell them ACAS require it (even if you haven’t called ACAS yet, start name dropping them).

Ask for a copy of your previous warning and the letter confirming how long it stays on record (again, just to put them on the back foot).

I’m guessing you use a hospitality time and attendance system such as Fourth which explains why you didn’t include the days you were scheduled off. Does that mean they redid your rota which is why you missed it? The only potential I can see for GM (and it’s a long stretch) is if they are accusing you of deliberately missing some days in your holiday request submission, to use less days. I saw that before, but it was a manager being creative with their “rest days”! Wasn’t a disciplinary in our case, just a firm chat.

Def phone ACAS in the morning too.

Best of luck, don’t forget hospitality workers are like gold dust now so don’t let them walk all over you.

Hi yeah I’m going to go alone. It said if I wish another member of staff to accompany me then to let them know and they will arrange it but who could I possibly ask with it being a family business. Even if not direct family they are all connected. I’m the only one who isn’t. Funnily enough it’s only in the last year I’ve felt more like part of the team, I don’t know as if I was being included more. I’ve been told the place would be on its knees without me by the owner. He often compliments my work and how high my standards are, my customer rapport etc.
I assume it will be the owner and area manager who do the meeting, they issued the letter. There is hr but it’s literally one person who organises payroll.
As far as I am aware nothing was documented from the previous incident. I have not seen any policies. But being in hospitality for nearly 25years they seem to do things their own way and get away with it. Many a time seen new owners come in and clear out staff/cut hours with no come back.

It's too late for this situation but you need to join a union:
https://www.tuc.org.uk/

Thanks for this. I don’t think they play by the rules to be honest very common in hospitality.

I feel this is it for me, another manager missed a shift due to being in jail but was only suspended for 3 days.

My plan is to listen to what they have to say, take it on board. Be apologetic for making a mistake but tell them that I would never intentionally do so and risk my job as they know how much I love it and what it means to me. If they don’t want me back they don’t want me.
Im really anxious and distressed about this don’t get me wrong but my biggest fear is trying to get a new job when I have been fired. I got a job offer this morning however it’s not ideal, it’s a part time contract but at least can ride things over a bit as I have a mortgage, bills like everyone else!

Funnily enough I had been looking at redundancy before my holiday due to the cuts to see if I was entitled. So it’s been in my head that I may be let go soon. I think I’d have issues proving anything tbh as they all quite rightly have each others back.

Sorry trying to read through and respond but have my kids here and I’m trying to be as normal as possible. I don’t think I have the strength to say some of the suggestions. I’m the type of person who was never in bother and if I ever got spoken to would have been mortified. My mum is also going on about taking them to a tribunal if needs be but that sounds so stressful when all I need is a job to pay my bills.

In hindsight which is always the case I can see where I could have fixed this before the fact. I did remind the manager I was off on x date and he said don’t worry it’s sorted. However I should have checked back on this at a later date. As I had previously had an issue with my holiday then I should have asked them to put it through on my behalf. Though when I edited my dates that was in conversation with my manager. Though these don’t cover the shift I missed as this would have been my day off so to speak. End of I’m an idiot and have really screwed this up and now my family are going to suffer when we don’t have enough money coming in. I just want the meeting over with and then I know for sure. The uncertainty is making me feel sick though I know deep down I’m done.

Stop blaming yourself. You sound like a bit of a doormat - they're probably targeting you because they know you'll go along with it. Stand up for yourself! You shouldn't need to check whether a manager did what they said they would.

Are you not going to take the advice to call ACAS?