Sick Pay

[Meli96]

I’m in London. UK. I’ve been off sick for nearly 2 years. First 12 months fit note said stress at work, but changed to Post Covid syndrome (long Covid) Anxiety and depression thereafter. I have income protection as employee benefit but he didn’t help and it was declined (even the appeal). Tried raising grievance but HR declined to even discuss it. What options do I have for income whilst sick?
Sick note resets after 12 months but I haven’t worked in between the sick notes when reasons for illness changed.
Cant find help to prepare for ombudsman or even fight insurer, which my employer should be doing.
any ideas or suggestions appreciated

Employment tribunal chance gone after 3 months. How would I negotiate an exit?

How on earth do you think you have a case for an employment tribunal, even if you were within the allowable time frame?
What do you think your employers have done wrong?

Honestly they've been patient. It's likely been stressful for them having to manage you absence and provide cover.

I think the best way to negotiate your exit would be for you to resign and let them get on with running their business.
Sorry you've been poorly. But that's not their fault or their problem

The OP says that she was being bullied, hence going off with work related stress. I presume that this would have been the basis for her employment tribunal if she had pursued one.

Of course, it isn't clear as to whether that is actually what was happening. Not all allegations of bullying are valid. But it doesn't really matter at this point in any case because that boat has sailed.

OP, I think the best thing for you now would be to focus on the future. If you aren't well enough to return to your old job, are there other jobs that you could potentially do? Or do you need to apply for disability benefits?

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves
Ah sorry. I missed that first time round, but then read all the OPs posts again and found it. Although it's not very clear

None of it is very clear because the OP's communication style is quite muddled.

We have no way of knowing whether that is the result of long covid brain fog making things difficult for her or whether these issues predated her going off sick and were the root cause of her problems in work.

Again, at this point, it may not matter because she is where she is. It seems highly unlikely that she'll get anywhere with the ombudsman with regard to her failed insurance claim. There might be a chance of succeeding if she submits a new claim with solid medical evidence based on a later diagnosis - I guess this would depend on the detailed terms of re policy and I'm no expert in insurance.

Notwithstanding the above, I think the OP also needs to be looking forward and thinking about the future and what that might look like.

How long were you working for them before you were off on stress?

Op said

all that matters to the insurance is the first 6 months. Well the first six months was stress (which your employer paid) and the next 6 months were stress. And you were told that stress wasn’t covered.

I sympathise with your situation but you’d do better to find cud your energy on managing your anxiety- and plan your return to the workplace

OP you haven’t really got any negotiating power. The business has carried on without you for two years. Just hand in your notice if you plan to go back to work. If you are unable to work, it may be worth looking into whether a dismissal on capability would benefit you in terms of claiming benefits.

If you resign and leave, where is the negotiation? Sorry, where is the deal? I really don’t see it, if you just leave and loose any rights you may have acquired as an employee.

You have been off sick for two years , I don't think your employer will negotiate an exit package.

For a few months, they kept refusing I had anything from previous years, even though I kept quoting Uk law, until I raised a grievance. Then, suddenly, within days I was entitled to 28 days for each year, but two days before the grievance call, they reduced it to 20 days for previous years. Apparently it’s only 20 days carryover per year.

It is very surprising that they haven't already managed you out after such an extended absence - it should be easy enough for them to dismiss you at this point, though obviously, they will need to follow their processes to the letter.

What kind of negotiation are you envisaging, exactly? What would you want from them?

Op

Honestly just quit and apply for benefits until you are capable to work

I think you've probably lost most of the rights by now as you haven't done any work for your employer in 2 years?
Kindly, employment is a contract, you give your services and in return your employer extends you certain benefits and pays your salary.
I understand that you've been unwell but your attitude seems to me to be large corporate = victimless if i squeeze every penny out of them i can get?
Surely at this point you accept you've already had quite a lot of money from your employer despite not doing any work for them for quite some time, so perhaps you've had enough?

Op, you need to decide whether you want to return to work and are well enough to do so.

It doesn't sound like your work has been very supportive or managed the process well. However, I suspect that due to the length of time you have been off they will be looking at dismissing you.

I sympathise. I was off for around 18 months due to cancer surgery and subsequent treatment. And my job was kept open. I only got company sick pay for 6 months, then I claimed SSP, then ESA then PIP. My manager did say that around 16 months I needed to take steps to return to work and arrange a return date otherwise they would look at going through a dismissal process.

I did want to try to return to work and did engage with my manager to do so. Reasonable Adjustments were put into place and a phased return, but in reality it wasn't great due to the job and workload. 18 months later I'm in a different role at the same company and much happier. It's much easier to get a job when you're in a job. If I had been dismissed it would have been harder and I would have lost confidence in my ability.

I'm glad I did go back to work. It's exhausting but it really helps with my mental health. It's great to have the money too.

I’m starting to think this is a wind up.

I see nothing wrong with at least going to the ombudsman to make sure nothing was missed, but I can also see why the insurer is wary of the change in diagnosis.

I also wonder whether it wouldn't be better for your health to let all this go and make some peace with the need to find more sustainable employment?

I have just shifted jobs to one that works for my health condition, and in talking about it have discovered others who have done the same.

As someone whose symptoms were dismissed as stress for two decades before I finally got a diagnosis of a neurological condition you absolutely have my sympathy. Mine is invisible so I have been on the receiving end of a nasty amount of skepticism too. But the most powerful thing I did was accept that "this is me now, or for the foreseeable at least" and start to plan a life that works.

Your responses are muddled and actually a bit rude. When I mentioned a negotiated exit this was in the context of what your approach should have been at the time whatever happened to cause you to go off sick with work related stress. This was the time to work with your employer on improving the situation or agreeing to part ways. Instead of trying to resolve that situation you assumed, wrongly as it happens, that you could just take an extended period of sick leave on 70% pay. Nothing is clear from this thread other than you appear to have gone about things in an illogical and incoherent way, that you are complaining about the wrong thing and you still aren’t listening to any constructive advice.

Still trying to understand how long you worked for them before going off on stress.
Was it less than two years?

Yeah, I’m finding this thread incredibly hard to follow.

OP - how long did you work for them for? Are you working now? Are you able to work now?

if this is about money you feel you are owed, you need to go to the ombudsman if you want to appeal the insurance claim decision.

Otherwise, I’d be looking at new roles, or claiming ESA if unable to work.

I don't know how to fight a hidden report, a missing list of illnesses or symptoms, etc.

This isnt how it works. They aren't going to give you a nice report that basically instructs you on how to best spin it so you are shoehorned into a category that's covered.

You went off with stress. Stress isn't covered. You aren't entitled to any money and you are wasting precious time & energy trying.

It sounds to me like you were counting on getting the money and have no back up plan for if it isnt available.

This…

Even if HR did notice at the time that your fit note didn't state all your conditions, they probably didn't think in a million years that you would be off for another couple of years and have to go through the insurance route. They would have accepted the notes as adequate for their purposes at the time and that's all.

https://apple.news/Acp2uVNtjQoqtOweeN2lcwg

an uncanny similarity.

I'm a bit confused due to the amount of posts and it all feels a bit disjointed.

Am I right in understanding that your original grievance is because your sick note stated stress, your employer knew this wasnt covered by insurance, but didn't tell you this?

I understand thats disappointing but it wouldnt have changed the outcome...you couldnt have changed what was in your sick note. It would have been inappropriate for your employer to contact you and say "hey, stress isnt covered, you'll need to be diagnosed with something else in order to claim" surely that would be insurance fraud?

I've still not understood what the issue with your second year claim for long covid is?