Long term sickness absence - best to resign or wait to be dismissed on health grounds?

[Willowcat77]

I have been off sick due to suffering a severe mental breakdown due to work stress. I am Autistic, which is relevant to my condition. I have now been invited to a sickness absence review meeting, following an OH Report which stated it was unclear whether I would be fit for work within 3 months. My employers have made it clear that the outcome of the meeting is likely to be dismissal on health grounds.

My question is, would it be better for me to resign now and spare myself the ordeal of these face to face meetings?

If I am dismissed would this be a massive stain on my work record and mean I will never be able to find another job again?

I am still very unwell and will have to apply for benefits (ESA). I'm worried that if I resign they might say I have made myself voluntarily unemployed and will be entitled to nothing.

So I don't know what to do for the best. Please can somebody advise? Thank you.

I don’t think resigning would be good, the longer you can string this out, the longer you get paid.
Are you in a union?

If I am dismissed would this be a massive stain on my work record and mean I will never be able to find another job again?

No. That's not how things work. No.

Kindly, that question shows that - as you say yourself - you are still very unwell.

I think you'd be better off allowing the process to run its course. Depending on the circumstances it's possible they may agree a settlement if they move to dismiss, which could include an agreed reference.

Do you have support?

Don't resign, let them dismiss you instead so you can claim all the benefits you are entitled to. You should also claim PIP as well if you can.

Tell them that you want the meeting to be done remotely by Zoom as well as you are still unwell so at least you don't have to travel and be in the same room...

If this workplace caused your breakdown you should also speak to ACAS and Citizen Advice Bureau or your union if you have one.

If you can show disability discrimination and bullying you could have a case. Especially if they have made no effort to put in place reasonable adjustments.

I would make it clear to them that you are considering this action and they might go for a financial settlement...

Hi @Willowcat77 I completely empathise with your position.,it's grim. I was off sick in my last job 7 years ago and had to let them sack me. I was so burnt out and damaged I couldn't work for them again. After the final termination meeting I felt lighter and my back pain almost instantly disappeared.
I got esa while I got back on my feet.

So I'd say yes it's possibly the best option but talk it over with a trusted friend or counsellor if you can.

Good luck and sending you lots of support.

Definitely don't resign.
I don't really know the ins and outs of this, but I definitely do know that we have had people being paid on health insurance for years at work.

Absence due to mental health seems to be the most difficult for an employer to manage without incurring huge discrimination risk, so don't give up.

It doesn't cost them anything once the insurance company is paying your salary, but they do need to follow all of the steps, so do the meeting but don't shy away from making it clear exactly how unwell you are.

All the best

I would say don't resign, go through the motions. Make sure you have a union rep or a solicitor if you can afford so they don't push you around. Have the meeting on Zoom, they shouldn't be doing this if you are still off sick by the way they need to wait till you return I think. That's certainly what happened with me, talk to acas if you can't afford legal help. Use AI to record the meeting and ask for frequent breaks if you need them.

Don't resign. I know it's difficult but let it run its course, it'll drag your pay out a bit longer and it'll mean you won't be sanctioned for making yourself unemployed. Sending hugs

Don't resign. Let the process run its course and they will terminate your employment on the grounds of ill health.
As far as getting another job in the future, your reason for leaving your current job is ill health. It doesn't really matter that they dismissed you, it's because of your health.

If you are still too unwell to attend the meeting then just tell them that. You don't have to go if you're too unwell. I take it you're seeing an HCP for your breakdown, can they provide you with a note to say so?
If the purpose of the meeting is to move to dismissal on health grounds if you can't give them a date to return to work then that will happen with or without you there anyway.

I wish you well in your recovery

Many organisations won't allow you to bring in a solicitor - a union rep or workplace colleague will be permitted. Also please don't record the meeting without permission, instead ask for it be recorded noting your current difficulties. This is reasonable and should be adhered to.
Not sure how long you have been off for, but at some point dismissal will be a reasonable consideration for your employer even if you have a disability i.e jf you have been off for 6 months or longer and there is no foreseeable return to work, then dismissal is a reasonable consideration. You mention an OH report, have reasonable adjustments been considered? Definitely don't resign as you'll be entitled to notice payment. Acas is a good point of contact.

Do NOT Resign

I can't advise on what is best but regarding claiming benefits, I resigned from a previous job a few years ago after the workplace caused me a lot of stress/ mental health issues and I was able to claim contributions based JSA and wasn't penalized for resigning. I just explained I left for MH reasons. I found a new job fairly quickly. The only thing I would consider is that your workplace sick pay and even just SSP is going to be more than ESA initially will be.

Can anyone add to this in terms of impacts on future work? advice would help me and may be of help to the OP.

I suffered with work place stress in my last role and took some time off on sick leave. I’ve since signed a contract for a new job but have just received a medical questionnaire from OH where it asks about illnesses affected by work in previous roles, existing illnesses or illnesses that lasted 12 months or more. It doesn’t ask if I took sick leave but I’m worried that if I get called in to a OH meeting they will ask this. Do I have to answer this and what could the implications be?

@Sunset54 kindly, maybe start your own thread? The OP's situation is not yours so your question will derail their thread. Hope you find the answers you need.

@twentysevendresses kindly, the OP was asking about future impacts of long term sickness and if they resigned vs waiting to be sacked and so my question appears very relevant to their situation. The questions I received also asked whether I had left a role due to illness and so how to answer this is something they should likely consider.

No don't resign, go through the sickness process with them. Being dismissed on health grounds is not the same as being fired for misconduct etc, you're ill and you're not to blame for that.

Thank you all so much for your advice and support. I definitely won't resign, even though I'm dreading the meeting. They ignored the OH advice to hold it online because they said it's important to see me in person. I'm not in a union unfortunately.I'm thinking of writing a statement beforehand because I can't actually talk properly because of a stress-induced breathing pattern disorder, so it's going to be a nightmare. But everyone's advice here has been very reassuring, so thank you.

@Willowcat77 does your employer know about your Autism (have you declared it to them?). If you have, then it changes how they need to handle your employment situation compared to if you've never made them aware of being autistic. The fact they are ignoring the OH recommendation says to me they aren't aware of their legal obligations under the Equality Act (2010).

Its difficult to advise you without more details that you'll probably not want to disclose on here, so I'll just say it's worth you talking with ACAS so you can explain your situation, including the circumstances surrounding your breakdown, because those could be relevant to your condition and could mean your employer has been in breach of the law that is there to protect you.

I agree with the advice not to resign. Do seek advice initially via ACAS so you fully understand your rights, because you can bet that your employer won't help you in that regard.

Edited to add: you have a right to delay the meeting date and time, if you need more time to consider what you want to say. You can also state that the OH report recommends holding the meeting online (probably with your camera on.

If it helps you not being face to face, for example if you feel it's less intimidating and will help control your nervousness, please push for them following the OH report. Say it's a Reasonable Adjustment under the Equality Act (2010) relating to your Autism. They could be trying to intimidate you so take back the control. By citing the EqA, they will pick up that you've sought legal advice and they may change their approach and dial back on any intimidation they might have been planning to use.

@daisychain01

The weird thing is that I gave my manager a copy of my NHS ASD diagnosis letter way back in 2016 and she said she would file it. When I emailed her a month saying that I wanted to have my Autism taken into account as a disability, she denied I had ever given it to her!!! I was so shocked. I don't know if she has forgotten or if she is lying.

Luckily I still have all my paperwork plus emails I wrote to my employer years ago where I mentioned my Autism and saying that the job was making me ill even then.

I'm not well enough for any conflict with them though. At least they have made a concession that my partner can accompany me to the meeting.

If you feel like you have to attend this meeting, I would advise you to write down a statement to read out at the start. In that statement, include the information about your diagnosis and that you gave that information some time ago. Also include a statement about your willingness to attend an online meeting as a face to face meeting would only exacerbate your mental illness, but that you have been forced to attend regardless. Tell them how this process is making you feel and that the actions your employer is taking is also hindering your recovery. If it is written down, and you feel unable to speak, your husband should be able to read the statement out for you.
I would be looking for a settlement agreement with an agreed reference here.
Check out the ACAS website beforehand to familiarise yourself with what your employer can and cannot do.

NHS? Probably your manager is lying. I am sorry.

I would immediately lodge a grievance as you have evidence you've made your employer aware of your disability. You are thereby paving the way for lodging a Tribunal action discrimination, provided the last evidence of discrimination (for example them ignoring the OH recommendations on the meeting format and approach), is within 3 months 1 day. You have to exhaust your internal processes first, so by lodging the grievance that's your valid date to cite in the tribunal form.

talk things through with ACAS and be at the meeting hopefully online, ready prepared for them to tell you what they are proposing. Again, please don't resign. Keep your cards close to your chest and let them do all the talking. See what they have to say and form your plan from there.

Your workplace sounds like a night-mare. You should definitely not resign, find someone you trust to support you during the meeting. This sounds like an extra stressful thing added to an already over-stressful life. Your work-place should be supportive and not use the process as a way to bully you out of employment. I hope that you can find the strength you need to deal with this.

(I know how this feels, my last work-place paid for me to get a diagnosis for my Aspergers (as it was then called) and then tried to manage me out using PIP. Bastards!.)

Resigning does not affect your ability to claim ESA or PIP so please don't let affect your decision.

I have sent you a PM.

You have a lawful ease back into work transition and should be supported by HR. Please don't fear meetings, they should be positive and asking you what they can do to help. Xx