How much 'free work" is expected from you in a school?

[Bling987543]

I am working in a school in an admin role part time.
I've never worked in an educational setting prior to this but do have admin experience.I have taken a very large pay cut to do so so I can have the school holidays off as I have young children and I can rush to collect them from school if I leave on time. I did explain this in the interview.
All of my previous jobs you clock in and out at your exact start /finish time and that's it. But this is very different.
I was aware prior to starting the job that it's kind of expected for you to help with the Xmas fair etc and not be paid overtime for it when you work in a school. Which is fine as its occasional.
But I'm finding that there is something happening after school very regularly that I'm supposed to help with or be at. Also going in over the summer for a few days (not inset) which will not be paid.
Im included in meetings that happen after my finish time or before my start time. I am also expected to buy things such as food for meetings etc in my own time with my own money. Also to go to the post office and other places in my own time. As this is what the previous staff member did.
I took this job because of the shorter hours, and as I said the pay is extremely low. Am I entitled to say no to these things or that I want to go within work time for the errands? Or is this going to make me look very bad?
I am used to being paid for every minute of my time so I am finding it a big adjustment. As I said I am happy to do some things but I don't want to be taken advantage of either, as I think once you start it will be taken for granted, as the previous staff member must have done .
I understand that there aren't lots of staff to do these things within a school and it takes a commitment, but imo the hours given should have been longer to cover what they expect me to do

I work in school admin, I would suggest that you set an alarm and leave on time- I am a relatively high grade and shoo my staff out of the door at their home time.

I may say to a colleague will you pop to the post office because she walks her dog.

Check your contract - are you term time plus 5 I.e. you are contracted and paid for inset days.

If you are expected to come in on non working days during holidays ask if you can put an overtime claim in and if not say you can't do it.

If you are asked you attend a meeting and you have worked your contracted hours say you have to go or will you have time off in lieu?
Schools run on a lot of good will but your school are taking the piss. I bend over backwards for my head and dont have a problem because my salary is ok - my admin team on much lower grades need to go unless it is critical they need to stay.

You will never get to the bottom of your to do list so leave things until tomorrow - that is the one thing I struggled with as I had always completed my tasks and started afresh the next day.

I dont think alot of the staff realise what my finish time is which doesn't help. It's also at a very part of the day so I feel awful just getting up and leaving .
I don't want to come across as being awkward or nor committed to the job but I cannot keep doing extra hours for free, it's just not fair on such a low wage

Most of the admin staff in my school work hard, but they are out of the door within a few minutes of their finish time except for the odd rare emergency.
If you buy things for meetings, put in an expense claim . If they won't reimburse you, then don't pay for it again. Ask for the money upfront or tell them you can't afford it/haven't got your wallet with you.
It is unfair of them to be asking the lowest paid staff to work unpaid, and possibly illegal if it brings your hourly rate blow minimum wage. You are going to have to stand up for yourself.

I was school admin, now one grade up (but not quite a school business manager).
It is not usual in a school for TA's and Admin to work over and above their hours.
You absolutely should not do extra in the holidays - your sbm will be paid for this. Ask for overtime if it's not in your contract. (Mine is term time plus 4 weeks).
Leave on time.
We don't mind doing a couple of evenings a couple of times a year....but that's it.
You are not paid enough to go over and above.

This is just education now. The pay is low for the level of what you must do generally (whether admin, support or teaching staff) and individually because there isn't any money. A lot relies on good will.

I'm amazed that you (firstly) actually explained in an interview that you didn't want to do any extra than the basics and they still offered you the job.

I think they probably expect you to claim the bits you buy back? I'm SLT in a school and if someone has stayed past their finishing time I assume it's out of their choice so wouldn't question it. They may think that you're happy to stay later, just start leaving at your normal time and if asked to buy something say yeah how should I pay for it.

I think it's time for all poorly paid staff in schools to put their foot down about this "expectation"

Education is funded on a bloody shoestring because far too many people are expected to work for free- " it's the done thing, it's for the kids" Well what about the workers? If you add up all the free hours you do and add it to what you are contracted to do then you will find your hourly pay goes below the minimum wage.

This is not legal.

Do not do it- it was not what you signed up for when you got the job. They either pay you the overtime or give you time off in lieu!

How many other industries are workers expected to work for free? And as for school fetes and other fundraising- that doesn't benefit you. That's for the PTA to organise!

I dont think alot of the staff realise what my finish time is which doesn't help. It's also at a very part of the day so I feel awful just getting up and leaving

I think there’s a word missing there-what is your start/finish time and when are you actually arriving/finishing?

Very busy part of the day, that was supposed to say. I work 9 till 3.30 but have things put in the calender for me between 8 and 5

@KnottyKnitting there is no pta :-/

Who is putting those things in your calendar? You need to speak up now, and tell them your working hours.

If it’s entered into your electronic calendar decline the invitation- so that whoever is doing the invites notices

Some is verbal, such as today asked to come in early Thursday and Friday , but no mention of OT or anything and also need to stay behind for a meeting Thursday evening so will have worked over about 2 hours

@Bling987543

"Sorry can't do that. I am off at 2.30 pm/coming here at 10 am. See you tomorrow!".

You need to be clear in your communication. If not things will run you over in no time.

So all the fundraising falls to staff? Sorry to be harsh but how does fundraising benefit you? ( Unless your own children attend the school.) it would be a hard cold "No" from me and if that goes down badly then you need to look for another job ! O

Thanks for your comments, I will bring it up tomorrow and hopefully nip it in the bud. Just wanted to get an idea from others in the same role of whether I would be thought of badly for this

If doing the extra time (including errands outside of work time) takes you under minimum wage, it's not legal. You need to discuss this with your line manager.

It sounds like the hours allocated to your role aren't sufficient, so perhaps they need to add an extra hour/30 minutes on the end of your day?

If there are meetings outside of your start/finish time, then just politely reply and say "I finish at X time so can't attend."

As a teacher, a lot is expected on "goodwill" in schools, but this is unsustainable, and the more people who stand up and say no, the better!

I know it may be difficult to afford if you are on a low wage, but if there is a good union rep in your school they can also help you with this.

It's unreasonable to expect low paid staff to work over hours regularly. Staff will help with things like the fete or an evening event like a school production but it's voluntary. Most of the time they will leave within 10-15 mins of their finish time, there might be a parent in reception waiting for their child or something and they will hold on until they're out of the building.

I work in a school as operations staff and I work until the job is done but I am paid accordingly.

It's standard for admin staff to have 'term time plus 5 days' or similar in the contract. You will not be working over the summer for free - it will be in your contract, if it isn't see HR because you shouldn't be going in.

How many other industries are workers expected to work for free?

Probably the majority?

I think this is really common in schools.

Teachers often have zero boundaries around their time as they are contractually bound to work however many hours it takes to complete the tasks associated with their role (and these are often just piled on by school leaders without actually considering whether it's actually feasible to expect staff to put in those hours).

So because teachers just expect to plough on through, it is easy for those expectations to bleed out into the wider staff group which is really unfair. Our office manager and business manager both work much too much; a lot of it long after the school day is over, and frequently in evenings and on weekends. This drives me nuts; I think it's bad enough for my teaching colleagues to be expected to put so many hours in, but when our support staff are routinely sending emails on a Sunday morning and updating spreadsheets at 11pm on a Friday night, I draw the line.

Please don't work too hard.

If you are contracted 9 _ 3.30 who us manning the phones / reception either side of this?

In my school we have me 8 - 430, data admin who is 8.30 - 1.30 and a receptionist 11.30 - 4.30. Myself and Data admin deal with morning chaos and then attempt to do our jobs with numerous interruptions until receptionist comes in.

Normally it's simply because staff don't know your work hours so just be strict with that, if you have somewhere to be that's that. "Oh I'd love to but actually I finish at 15:00 and have another commitment".

The odd voluntary thing I wouldn't mind doing like a school fayre because I enjoy them but only if it doesn't impact my own childcare.

Or talk to your manager and put together a toil arrangement, chances are you won't take all that's owed to you but handy for your own children's sports days or nativity

Admin contract hours only with the exception of when they get the Ofsted call and everyone stays until at least 7pm,,

You shouldn't do errands on your own time. Either say you need to do it in the school day or negotiate an extra hour a week pay

@JustAnotherDayInNorfolk there is another staff member in the office who works 8-5 and is paid a lot more than me . A lot falls on her aswell