Pregnancy/redundancy…help

[PregnantNowScrewed]

My boss took me for lunch last week and told me the firm would be starting a redundancy process later this year at my level but that I didn’t have anything to worry about.

Literally the day after we had this conversation I found out I’m pregnant.

Of the people at my level I am also the most recently employed (will have been there 2 years in Sept but have a 3 month notice period so reckon I will get over the 2 year mark by the time this “process” starts). I’m really worried that they will make me redundant due to my pregnancy (without admitting this obviously).

Is there anything I can do or say to protect myself? All of my performance reviews have been excellent, I was promoted in January, and I’ve obviously made notes of the conversation with my boss where he said it wouldn’t be me.

I’m the main breadwinner and we have 2 other kids so this would be absolutely disastrous.

Bumping 🤞🏻

If you have only just found out you are pregnant you don't need to let your employer know yet. You have until the 15th week before your baby is due.

Having said that, if they know of your pregnancy and make you redundant, they would be taking a huge risk that an employment tribunal would conclude that this was pregnancy discrimination.

Yes @prh47bridge it’s trying to balance those two things.

I think my best bet is to try to keep it under wraps until as near to my 2 year anniversary as possible, but then to tell them once the process begins.

My worry is that once they know I’m pregnant they will decide to make me redundant but will say that they have made the decision on the basis that I’m last into the role (which I think is legitimate)?

I wonder whether the fact my boss has suggested that I won’t be the one chosen holds any weight at all in this context as presumably the decision won’t be solely down to him anyway?

Last in first out is risky. It can be indirect discrimination. And if they use LIFO to get rid of you but use a different process for others, that is going to be pregnancy discrimination. Similarly, if they change the process to LIFO on finding you are pregnant, that is pregnancy discrimination. I'm not saying you will keep your job but, if you do lose it, you may have a good case for discrimination. Note that you don't need 2 years service for a discrimination claim.

Thank you…that is helpful.

There are 3 roles and they are making 1 or 2 redundant. The others have been at the company much longer than I have and I am apparently the top performer. I’m just worried they will change their minds when they find out I’m pregnant.

If they know you are pregnant you are given priority in the reallocation. If there are 2 identical roles and 3 people that are suitable to fill the roles the pregnant one gets a role.

Really? Oh my goodness that would be a massive relief if so.

Slightly different in that I’m 6 years in this company and also told my work super early about my pregnancy due to complications but my whole team was recently put at risk.

I attended the briefing conversation with the full team but in my one to one afterwards was told that I was protected and had to be allocated a role in the new structure which would by default be my current one unless I chose to apply to something else.

If I wasn’t pregnant I’d be going through the at risk process at the moment. So it absolutely worked in my favour that they were aware.

Could they tupe you over to the other company? That way you still have your maternity leave through the new company

Yep this. I think this is pretty new, it used to only be if you'd started maternity leave that you were protected but now it covers pregnancy too.

Don't take our word for it and do look it up but assuming we're right, you'd be better off telling them sooner rather than later

@rosegarden95 there is only 1 company - sorry if I wasn’t clear somehow.

We’re basically not busy enough at the senior level that I’m at, so not enough work to go round for the 3 people currently at my level, and no prospects of later promotion for all 3.

My boss said that I would be fine and he has basically tipped me off about the whole thing which won’t start until later this year (he didn’t say when).

It sounds like I should make sure I tell them about the pregnancy before the process starts.

Yes I think you are right - since 6 April this year…timing! 😅

So do we think this means that if they are keeping 1 or 2 people to do the same job I will have to be 1 of those people?

https://www.acas.org.uk/redundancy-protection-for-pregnancy-and-new-parents

OP, you have more protection in that any suitable alternative roles MUST be offered to you. This starts the moment you tell them you're pregnant.
https://www.acas.org.uk/redundancy-protection-for-pregnancy-and-new-parents#:~:text=Pregnant%20employees%20and%20some%20new,pregnant

However, it doesn't prevent them from selecting you for redundancy over others. As long as the criteria has been applied fairly you don't have a case for pregnancy discrimination

Thank you. Is an alternative role something different from my current role?

Ive been told by my boss that I’m the top performer of the 3 candidates and that I don’t need to worry about the process. So my assumption would be that (pregnancy aside), whatever performance criteria they applied will result in me being retained.

My concern is that once I tell them I am pregnant, they will decide to change the goalposts so as to make me redundant, in which case it will be pregnancy discrimination, but presumably very difficult for me to prove (though I’ve made very good notes of the convo with my boss). I guess I just need to see how it all pans out.

X-posted!
There are two other things to consider here.
Firstly, HR is often wary of making pregnant employees redundant due to the potential for tribunal. Even if the method used is objectively fair. Nothing to prevent you from bringing a claim, even if you lose it could be bad PR.

Secondly, depending on how senior you are, is a suitable alternative likely to exist?

Yep

Anyone who has this redundancy protection has priority over other employees. This applies even if other employees are also suitable.

If I've read it right there are several people at the same level (same role?) and they're cutting the numbers, in which case, as she's pregnant she'll be prioritised to stay automatically

@DanceTheDevilBackIntoHisHole you're wrong.
The law only relates to suitable alternative vacancies and this is clearly stated throughout the document.
It does not relate to the actual process of selection for redundancy.

I think I’m confused about what alternative means.

There are 3 people doing the same job, and there are no real alternatives in the organisation as we are all quite senior. So if they keep 1 or 2, is it the case that they have to keep me because I’m pregnant? Or does the fact that there are no suitable alternatives mean that actually I don’t have any special protection at all?

I do appreciate the bad PR point.

It's the latter. They don't have to keep you because you're pregnant. You're not protected against redundancy, you're protected by being guaranteed an alternative role , if any are available.

https://www.acas.org.uk/your-rights-during-redundancy/taking-another-job-with-your-employer
The section of alternative employment here explains the various aspects considered but ultimately it comes down to the terms of the role, skill and ability.

Unfortunately if you're senior there's very likely to be no alternative senior role. Something that's a step down, say a deputy might also be suitable depending on the pay differential. It's quite subjective.

Ok thank you…this is what I had initially thought.

I think in that case - quick change of strategy- it must be best to keep the pregnancy quiet for as long as possible then.

Also OP the suitability of a role is usually contested w.r.t redundancy pay - once offered, employees need a good reason for rejecting , or they lose redundancy pay. You can look up some tribunals related to this and see what factors they considered.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/redundancy/check-your-rights-if-youre-made-redundant/check-if-you-can-challenge-your-redundancy/other-jobs-your-employer-should-offer-you/

More on alternative jobs

Thank you. There almost certainly won’t be any suitable alternatives as those deputy level positions are all already filled.

I guess I just have to hope that they do the right thing.

My misunderstanding then.

However does it slightly depend how they're doing it? In some cases if they're whittling people down from 4 to 2 roles, they're sometimes creating 2 new.jobs that encompass aspects of the previous 4 in which case they're selecting for 'new' roles? A lot depends on what they're doing exactly

Here there are 3 people doing essentially exactly the same job, and they want to make 1 or 2 of them redundant, but the role itself won’t change at all.