Arrgh!! About to have my employment 'terminated'. How do I spin this in interviews?

[slug]

A long story. I've been in a new job for 3 months. It's a very specialised skill set (in the IT industry) and I came in as a trainee. Now you would think, being as it is not a skill that is taught in universities, and one where there are very few people who posess it, that the company would take every opportunity to make sure their trainees got the appropriate training. That, unfortunately, is not what happened to me. I was plonked in a corner for a month, given a few things to read and told to get on with it. I struggled with what I had to do, not just because it is complex, but because I was given very little to actually do. I was reduced to hovering over people's shoulders watching what they did.

A week ago my boss called me into his office and told me he was going to terminate my contract at the end of the three month period because I did not know enough. Not surprising really, he hadn't gone out of his way to make sure I had been taught, and every time I mentioned it (at least once a day) it just got brushed off with a 'You'll get the hang of it' type comment. So on Friday I had a meeting with the boss and HR. He had obviously told her I was miserable and did not like my job. I had printed off the training documents from the intranet and pointed out to HR that I had recieved less than half the training I should have recieved in the first month, let alone in three months. I argued my case and have won a weeks extension.

Now I accept that no matter what I do, my contract will be terminated at the end of this week. My boss has made it very clear to me, out of earshot of HR, that this is the case. I've been displaying symptoms of depression and, to be honest, it's not worth the stress. If it wasn't for the fact that DH hasn't got a job, I would have left then and there. My question, for those of you who have managed to read this far, is how do I explain this in subsequent interviews without sounding whiney? I don't want to mention that my boss was a classic bully with a firm belief in telepathy, and nor do I want to make it look like I just couldn't cope. When taught how to do something I was fine, I just was not taught how to do most of the job.

Sorry horseshoe I must jump in there, you do need to check your facts before giving legal advice.

SLug has only been there 3 months.

Her employer-

CAN replace her when she's still there
DON"T have to get her approval of meeting notes
DON'T have to extend probationary period if she can prove she's not had adequate training
DON'T in fact need to give any reason at all for dismissal if they don't want to
DON'T have to follow statutory 3-step procedure

All of these would be best practice, but nothing compelling employers to follow that.

Unless there's been some sort of discrimination slug has no right in the first year to claim unfair dismissal so there's nothing she can claim if none of the above best practices are followed.

Same thing happened to my D. He is doing fantastically now contracting and earning pots more money than he did in the horrible company.
Find out if it is better to resign now rather than waiting for the end of the week as it will probably be better for your reference.

Believe me it will all work out for the best in the end.

HAve to agree with flowery - on both the legal advice and how it would be best to look forward.

Like others have said, you cant claim benefits if you have resigned. However, I would have thought it likely that you could temp quite successfully, depending on what the local job market is like? If there is a shortage of IT temp jobs could you do some supply teaching in the short term?

Flowery...Legislation says differently and dismissal at any level applies

Please read below

"On many occasions a dismissal which seems quite justified to the employer will be found to have been unfair if correct disciplinary proceedings were not followed. As a result of the Employment Act 2002 from October 2004 all employers must have a disciplinary procedure in place which satisfies the requirements of the Dispute Resolution Regulations 2004. Whether you employ just one or hundreds of employees ignorance will be no excuse if you fall foul of this important area of new legislation.

There is a basic three-step Dismissal and disciplinary procedure (DDP) which must be used before an employer dismisses or imposes a significant sanction on an employee such as demotion, loss of seniority or loss of pay.

It applies to all types of dismissal, including conduct, capability, redundancy, retirement, expiry of a fixed term contract, unsuccessful probation etc.

Common Mistakes That Employers Make

For many the regulations have caused some confusion and practical difficulties. Some of the most common mistakes include:

not applying the procedures to employees with less than one year?s service. Whilst such employees are often unable to claim unfair dismissal (unless the reason for their dismissal is one of the automatically unfair reasons for which there is no qualifying period of employment such as pregnancy), they may be able to bring other claims such as discrimination with compensation increased accordingly
failure to invite employees to disciplinary hearings in writing or supply adequate evidence before the disciplinary hearing. The standard procedure requires the employer to set out the ?basis of the allegations? prior to the hearing
excluding dismissals other than disciplinary dismissals (eg non-collective redundancies, ill-health terminations, retirement, expiry of fixed term contracts)
not inviting employees to be accompanied
not including a right of appeal in a non-collective redundancy situation
not appreciating the statutory requirement to proceed with each stage of the procedure without undue delay
failure to appreciate that an employee may have right to appeal even if it is requested verbally rather than in writing and is after a timescale set down by the employer
not hearing grievances raised after termination of employment
not appreciating that paying an employee a lower bonus for performance related reasons could potentially amount to ?action short of dismissal? by the employer
failure to treat as a grievance any written statement/letter (for example a letter of resignation) which raises issues which could form the basis of a tribunal claim to which statutory procedures apply. This means that the employer must be alert to issues being raised in writing event if there is no mention of the words grievance.

PERSONALLY I would go straight to HR and ask exactly what is going on as no-one has actually confirmed in writing when her employment is to terminate

sorry horseshoe can't see anything you've pasted that contradicts what I've said.

The 3-step procedure applies to any dismissal, yes, but if you are dismissed and you feel the procedure hasn't been followed, the way you deal with it is by claiming unfair dismissal, which you do not have the right to do before a year.

As your information states, for employees under a year, the only claim for unfair dismissal they can make is if it's discrimination- one of the automatic unfair reasons, like pregnancy, joining a union.

Yes that is what I stated in my first post Flowery.

Read back on my posts I said that if she was forced out of her posistion and felt that her only choice was to resign then that was constructive dismissal and unfair dismissal only applied after 1 years service.

My only advice to her is that they STILL have not followed any kind of procedure and cannot just bring her in and say pack your bags on the grounds of probabtion period ending and I told you verbally last week. So if i were her, I would go straight to HR and question what is going on. That is what they are there for.

horseshoe if you feel you have been constructively dismissed, unfair dismissal is what you would claim, and also possibly wrongful dismissal. You cannot do so before a year in most cases.

Regardless of whether they have followed the statutory procedure or not, as long as they give her the appropriate notice, there is nothing she can do if they bring her in and dismiss her on the spot I'm afraid. She has no right to claim anything if they don't follow a procedure.

In the absence of unfair dismissal (ie under 1 years service) there have been cases where the employee has successfully claimed discrimination dismissal.

In any effect I am not trying to push slug into a legal battle as we all know how hard it is to win at tribunals. BUT i would be surprised if the HR department allowed her boss to act in the way he is and that is why it is so important to discuss the situation with them!

Arch at us I think slug just wants to get out of there as quickly as possible without losing as much dosh as she can

Amen to that, though a bit of me wants to punish the boss for being so bloody unfair.

If I remember my organisational psychology correctly, a belief in telepathy is one of the indicators of a failing system. Boss has that in spades, I'm not sure I want to hang on and see the department collapse.

Absolutely if she is concerned she should speak to HR, that's not in doubt. I just do get concerned when people post inaccurate legal advice in case someone else reading who has been dismissed after a very short time starts running off claiming things.

For the avoidance of doubt. there doesn't seem to be any possibility of discrimination here, so there is no right to claim unfair (constructive or otherwise) dismissal - there is no legal battle to be had regardless of whether slug wants it or not.

Obviously this is all irrelevant to slug who is sensibly going to move on from this and I hope, write it off to experience. So apologies to anyone reading for the debate, but necessary I think.

I think you need to resign too.

My DH resigned from a job after 3 months although they would have asked him to leave anyway. They built the job up in the interviews as being this great career progression and he would be in charge of this that and the other after the handover period but the work never got handed over and DH got increasingly frustrated that he was effectively doing nothing and the restructuring they promised didn't come about. He got very vocal about it and in the end, had he not resigned it was made very clear that they didn't want him to stay.

Not a dissimiliar situation to yours Slug - the job you applied for was not what you got either and that is what DH told people in later interviews too. Had he been sacked he couldn't have argued this.

I think if you stay beyond the 3 month probationary period then it is more difficult to explain but not if you leave after 3 months.

DH got temp work straight afterwards and they did ask at the agency what happened in his previous job but they didn't have a problem with his explanation.

He's set you up to fail from the beginning and it's his fault, not yours. Tosser, sorry you've been treated so badly.

I would say it was a contract too. Or lie and say the commute was bad/boss left and no work to do/they went bust (if you won't be found out!)

Tbh, most employers ask "why did you leave/why are you leaving " and as long as you give a credible answer they don't care!

I agree with Flowery.

Best of luck with your job search and keep your chin up.

Well thanks everybody. The final outcome is I've decided to resign on Friday. That way I have this week and next week's money coming in. It just isn't worth the stress, 4am wakings and palpitations. The upside is we have no mortgage and some savings and both have interviews lined up. We'll survive.

Thanks for all your suggestions and help, it clarified things in my mind.

Good Luck Slug. I hope you feel better now you have made a decision! Make sure HR know how appauling your boss has been.
I left a job because of a colleague once. It was such a shock to find someone I didn't get on with as I am quite easy going really, but this woman was a prize bitch. I have never met anyone like her in my life. I got a new job and resigned and they asked me quite specifically why I was leaving and even then I wasn't brave enough to say she was a factor. She was soooo intimidating and I regret not saying anything as she got promoted soon after . I could not have had her as my boss.

A final update. I was given a list of tasks to complete successfully by the end of this week. Yesterday I sent an email to HR and the boss, listing how I had completed all but one of the tasks, the final one being something that three colleagues, all who had been here more than a year, couldn't figure out how to do. I attached my resignation.

Later that day I was called in to the office to discuss it. They offered topay me off to the end of the mmonth (I only had to give a weeks notice) and offered to let me go at the end of the week, i.e. today. I feel vindicated. I took this as a tacit, though not explicit admission that they were in the wrong. Boss has been going round with a face like thunder, he's obviously been told off. The interview yesterday went well and I came home to find I have another interview for a job that pays twice what I'm getting now in a couple of weeks.

So I get to have the second half of the sluglet's holiday on paid leave, have at least two firm possibilities of a job and I get to leave with my head held high. Who knows what boss will say after I leave but yah boo sucks to him.

Thanks for the mumsnet jury keeping me sane through all of this.

Well done.

that's excellent news slug, onwards and upwards, and I know it's a bit of a cliche but I think in this instance the right thing has happened - you wouldn't have been happy there, you've got a bit of cash and will get a much better job.

Nice one and good luck!