To suggest this (demotion?) to work

[JustCantBeBothered]

Just to open with, I have 3 children aged 6 and under. Work 3 days per week. A year or so ago we had a company restructure and I went from managing one person in a technical/ scientific role to managing four. Not a lot of choice really as it was that or leave.

Roll to now. It's pretty tough going. I am now just a "people manager" doing very little of what I would consider my own work. So HR requests, team meetings, 121s but none of what I went to uni for. As I'm part time and all but one of my team are not, it sometimes means checking in on days off whilst I have my two youngest, and then being bombarded when I start my working week as the team have built up all questions / request or whatever. Also just had a rough time with a team member who has now decided to leave. In between the HR request etc I'm essentially bored as I don't do anything I consider meaningful anymore.

Senior Manager has said I need to start recruiting for person leaving. They were also part time, but they are suggesting recruiting for full time person.

Would I be mad to say I should take on the roll of the person leaving and they recruit a full time team manager instead? It would mean me taking on an element I haven't personally covered before but would have no direct reports. Although I would need to travel to a different site once per month, every month, for a very, very long day (site visit). A previous person in wider team took a similar "demotion" without a salary cut as they were also given a "senior" title so I don't think it's completely unreasonable. I've been with the company well over 10 years.

I'm torn about even suggesting it or sticking with what I have til my youngest goes to school in 3 years (!) as it's better the devil I know and boredom could be better?

Honestly, the bit before school is the easiest bit!! I would never go backwards, I’ve worked too hard. But you should do what’s best for you. Just please don’t think it’s easier when they are all at school. It’s so so much harder to work around that!

Oh ok. I guess for me I was planning to go up to 4 days when all of them were in school

I get the working hard bit but I've been lumped into a people manager role which is definitely not what I was before.

It's fine to have the conversation. Good employers have specialist career paths available as well as managerial ones. Increased levels of responsibility and seniority don't have to come with people management. Not everyone wants to be a people manager or would be a good one if they did.

Just to add, I upped my working hours when my DC were both at school. Once they hit Year 5 and I didn't have to do the school run any more my career skyrocketed.

Thank you. The role I'd move into wouldn't be considered managerial but I'd be a specialist in the respect that I'd be the only person in the company responsible for it. There is a technical manager for the whole team at the moment I work alongside with (senior engineer) who has no direct reports. I'm just the teams people manager. Which sucks. No chance of me being the senior engineer for a long while I suspect and I don't think I'd want it as the responsibility is truly phenomenal. I'd rather be good and reliable for one aspect then four if that makes sense. So at present I do all the team admin, with an engineer degree but do no actual work, and haven't done for quite a while so feel I'm getting out of touch from where I'm meant to be.

To add. I have a very senior role and I don’t line manage anyone ( I gave away my direct reports as didn’t have time for the admin) I only task manage my team now. So I don’t at all mean managing people is the definition of success.

I’ve always worked full time, school made it harder , not easier. Nursery was the dream. I’m just out the other side now my youngest started secondary in September.

Thank you, lots to think about.

School years are harder for me so far! You’re not unreasonable to suggest the plan you have, but what’s going on with these 4 people that it’s taking almost 3 days a week to manage them? Is it a performance issue with these particular employees, because management really shouldn’t be taking up so much of your time.

Shamelessly bumping as I have a 121 with my manager Tuesday before starting recruitment

On paper it sounds reasonable to propose moving into a technical role rather than a people manager role.

One of my main hesitations or concerns when people are considering "demotion" to reduce their stress is about the unintended consequences of losing the power/control and status of their current role. It does tend to knock people more than they anticipate and it can negatively affect self-esteem. We don't always consciously think about our professional identity until it's damaged or removed. It may also alter how colleagues perceive you and that can be difficult.

You lose some of the stress of responsibility and gain the stress of powerlessness. Sometimes you find yourself in a lower grade having to learn something new but because people know it was a demotion they expect you to already be proficient and have less patience for a learning curve. That can also make you doubt your own abilities.

However, you've clearly given detailed thought to your strengths and what makes work feel meaningful to you. It doesn't sound like much or any of your professional identity is attached to being at the manager grade. From what you've written it sounds like you could probably very happily perform at the lower technical grade and also feel satisfied by your work as being meaningful.

I suppose then my next thought is about the long term future. Setting aside the question of whether juggling school will be more difficult than nursery, what do you want to be doing or pursuing professionally 3/5/10 years from now in an ideal world? Will your choice at this point hinder you in achieving that?

If you move to the other role, will it close doors on what you hope to do in future? Either with your existing employer or if you wanted to move elsewhere? Will it take you down a dead end that will be satisfying and meaningful for the next 3 years but then become frustrating beyond that if you feel stuck or stagnating? Will it give you opportunities to grow and move into other similarly meaningful and satisfying roles?

If you stay in your current role, will that close doors on your future plans? Will you end up with the wrong skillset for what you would want your next role (and the one after that to be) or will it still enable you to get there? Will there be opportunities to develop the skills you want?

Financially over the long term will either choice disadvantage you? For instance through reduced pension growth.

I do also have pp's question about why managing 4 people is taking up 3 full days a week. I think that's worth considering as to whether there are changes that could and should be made that would reshape your current role.

I’m also unsure why managing people is taking up so much time, are they incapable or are you micro managing? Managing four people should but take up this about of time.

Thank you @atticstage for taking the time for such an answer, it's really thought provoking. I don't have my 121 til the afternoon so I'm going to spend the morning going over what my leaver actually does (the day to day grind as opposed to the reporting/outputs) and see if it helps make a better decision. I'm now swaying to staying as a manager though and worried I've been thinking about making a knee jerk reaction to move because I've had a bad week at work and the opportunity has presented itself. Tough one though

It seems odd 4 direct reports is taking up all your time. My managers have 9 each and it’s going up to 15 soon. Part times would be pro-rated but most of these managers don’t just manage but take on other tasks too, as even managing 9 doesn’t take up all their time. I’d be looking for another role but not a demotion

I've been in the same position even down to being 3 days a week and having a team that were full time reporting to me. I was also frustrated that a lot of my time was taken up with 121s/check ins, answering queries and attending "management" meetings. I think if I had been full time I could have found more of a balance with this. I took the chance to move down a level as I found the work far more interesting at the technical level and my primary motivation was job satisfaction rather than financial/ the prestige of having more responsibility. Maybe in the future, I might be more tempted if I felt I wanted to climb the ladder but I'm glad I did it.

Especially given it is not unprecedented in your organisation, I think you should have such a conversation.

Rather than suggest a demotion, could you use this opportunity to suggest a different structure the the team.

Say you’d like a senior role as X YZ as that’s your interest, preferred work, and you could train others or whatever - then make it about a demotion?

Say I think we need Simone part time mornings for people admin / HR sorting work out and the company would benefit from my skills as x?

Turn your thinking round.

Thanks everyone. Just to clarify as I've obviously written in anger and maybe over egged the situation. I work 3 days and, yes, I'm massively frustrated by the time taken to 121 / management meetings / KPI / area meetings etc which I feed back info from my team. I'm also off the back of dealing with a long running issue with the employee who is leaving (and basically been absent/done little work as a result). The majority of projects / work load which I would've worked on a year or so ago before restructure now goes to the technical engineer, not me. The rest of the other work goes to members of my team. I miss doing the work. Yeah I get involved in the odd bit and bob, but I feel swamped with reporting, signing stuff off and management meetings. I log off feeling I have done nothing to contribute. Part of me thinks, stuff it, I can cruise along for another few years, the other part thinks I need to "do" something. I do feel like another pp said that if I was full time I could balance the managing with some work.

I took a demotion when DS was young due to health issues, I actually quite liked the line management aspect, but there were lots of other demands and I couldn't fulfil them all. For me it was absolutely the right thing to do at that time, and it was easy to explain my decision when I went to go back up to previous grade when DS was older.

Trying to restructure so it's not a demotion is a good idea, see what appetite there is for that.

@Scarletttulips yes that's great. I think that's what I'd prefer to do. The person leaving was in the role for decades and was pretty much solely responsible. I would need a lot of training myself up but I'd be a good candidate for the job (I think!) if I don't do the job, I'd be training a newbie to do it - which would be just as long winded but result in me still taking a back seat there after.

If you ultimately want to get back to technical work, then I would worry that spending years out doing HR admin will deskill you and hinder or prevent you from returning to a technical role.

@Whiteglasshouse totally agree. I feel if I applied for a job externally now I am lacking current experience

I'd add to that that in the wider workplace there is a move towards self managed teams with technical skills being seen as the thing to employ and people and project management roles being in short supply.
Who knows what it will be like in a few years times, but to future proof yourself it is a safer bet to focus on developing your technical skills.

I think your logic is completely correct. I think people have a warped sense of what a 'promotion' is and for me, it certainly wouldn't be a people lead/people manager.

If you want to get back to your roots, I'd certainly push for your current salary and credentials and place into a more senior 'doing' role. The person replacing your current role could just be a people lead type person, who are much easier to recruit.

Thank you everyone. I'm glad it's not a crazy idea. The reporting line would be interesting as on paper I'd be reporting to whoever the new "me" would be unless there's a decision I'd report straight to my current manager. I could end up being managed by one of my current team members if they applied for my role and got it. How strange! But I'm not sure I'm overly fussed in the long run. I'm not fixed on titles etc at the end of the day. I just want to be reasonably happy (and paid 😂)