Civil Service - Policy

[YourFairRaven]

I currently work outside of the civil service and am looking to apply for EO and HEO policy advisor roles (I have an undergraduate degree and a few years of professional work experience, so does this seem about the right level?). I have some general questions not on the role of a policy advisor itself, but more on the general working conditions.

• Obviously it varies by depth but are there typically set working hours or can you start and finish as you please? I.e. 7-3 one day, 8-4 another day, 8.30 - 4.30 another day etc

• Does the answer to my previous question differ during the probation period? Do you tend to be in the office 100% during this time?

• Is what I have just described above classed as flexi time? Or does that work differently?

• Is it usual/possible to work say 34 or 35 hours a week over five days, rather than the standard 37? I know you can reduce hours to work part time, but I'm not sure what the general consensus is on just reducing a couple of hours a week

• Would it be suitable to ask the vacancy managers these kind of questions before applying for jobs or should this wait until after I was (hopefully) offered a job?

Obviously it varies by depth but are there typically set working hours or can you start and finish as you please? I.e. 7-3 one day, 8-4 another day, 8.30 - 4.30 another day etc
It will depend on the job. Some may be shifts with set hours others have flexi time that would enable you to do this.

• Does the answer to my previous question differ during the probation period? Do you tend to be in the office 100% during this time? Again it depends on the job but it can be a short term requirement whilst you are training.

• Is what I have just described above classed as flexi time? Or does that work differently? I am a little out of date but know typically flexi time has a period during which you work your hours e.g. 07:00 to 18:30. Then periods when you have to be at work e.g. 09:30 to 12:00 and 14:00 to 15:30. I suspect during covid this was relaxed and may have continued.

• Is it usual/possible to work say 34 or 35 hours a week over five days, rather than the standard 37? I know you can reduce hours to work part time, but I'm not sure what the general consensus is on just reducing a couple of hours a week Again dependent on the job but in my experience people do 5 x 7 hour days. 4 x 8 hours = 32 hours was popular. They may ask you to do full time initially when training.

• Would it be suitable to ask the vacancy managers these kind of questions before applying for jobs or should this wait until after I was (hopefully) offered a job? I would as you can get a better idea of what is and isn’t possible.

Most have core working hours when you are expected to be available ie 10-4 but remaining hours can be worked outside this. Probation can be hybrid. Flexi is working in excess of contracted hours then taking time off later to compensate, which can be accumulated but may need to be taken within a specific timeframe - good for upcoming appointments or sports days etc. Unusual to reduce contract by a couple of hours. Yes you can ask such questions during recruitment process.

I think all of this depends on a combination of the department you are joining, the role you are applying for, and the line manager.

In my experience in 1 Govt department, working in policy roles with multiple different line managers.

"are there typically set working hours or can you start and finish as you please?" - not really set working hours. I prefer to start at 8 and finish at 4, some colleagues prefer 10 - 6, plus other unusual working patterns in between (e.g. a colleague finishes at 3.30 one day a week and works 1 evening a week). There is a general expectation that you'll be available during working hours for meetings and urgent work.

• Does the answer to my previous question differ during the probation period? Do you tend to be in the office 100% during this time? - I think this depends. We are now supposed to be in the office 60% of the time, and I would think the expectations would be the same for those on probation, but some roles may need 100% attendance (probably not for policy roles though).

• Is what I have just described above classed as flexi time? Or does that work differently? I think flexi time is fairly broad and can cover things like this, plus things like working additional hours and taking it back later in lieu, or working compressed hours for example (e.g. working full time but in 4 days).

• Is it usual/possible to work say 34 or 35 hours a week over five days, rather than the standard 37? - I work 80%, I know of others working between 80 and 100%, so it is possible, but perhaps not that common.

• Would it be suitable to ask the vacancy managers these kind of questions before applying for jobs or should this wait until after I was (hopefully) offered a job? I think you you are getting in touch it would be useful to ask questions about flexibility etc - no point wasting time applying for a job that won't work. But, I had an interesting message recently from a senior female colleague who said they don't ask, they just tell. So go through the application process, and when offered the job, tell them what your working pattern will be, and how you will make it work. Bold...not sure if I'd go for that approach, but if you are seeking an almost but not quite full time role it might be worth a go!

“Is what I have just described above classed as flexi time? Or does that work differently? I think flexi time is fairly broad and can cover things like this, plus things like working additional hours and taking it back later in lieu, or working compressed hours for example (e.g. working full time but in 4 days).”

This confuses several things. Flexible working includes part time, flexi time, compressed hours (4 days or 9 day fortnight). Additional hours are where part time staff work additional hours up to full time and are paid for their time.

Flexi time is purely how you work your contracted hours over the week. Full and part time staff as well as those on compressed hours can all work flexi time.

When I was a Civil Servant, there was no core time, we could work any time between 7.00am & 7.00pm, take 2.5 days every flexi period off & twice a year take 5 days off.

I’d apply then negotiate if offered the role. They vary hugely - dh is currently 90% remote but expecting to move you in office one to two days a week. He works 37 hours but he has colleagues doing 9 day fortnights and others working term time only.

• Obviously it varies by depth but are there typically set working hours or can you start and finish as you please? I.e. 7-3 one day, 8-4 another day, 8.30 - 4.30 another day etc
Typically core hours are between 8-6 (lunch 12-2) so as long as you start/finish between those core hours, its fine. But there will be departments and roles where you do need to be online earlier or online later in the evening. So it 100% depends on business need. You couldn't do a 7-3 in my directorate (but could in other directorates in my department) simply because of business need.

• Does the answer to my previous question differ during the probation period? Do you tend to be in the office 100% during this time?
During probation period you should go as much willing as possible tbh. I'd say you should go in more - both for networking but also because there will be lots of meetings to attend as you get up to speed and you should show your face rather than having multiple 1-2-1s via Team. It's about making a good impression and it's the same as when you start a new role as an existing civil servant. I'd say at least 4 days a week, ideally. At least for the first month or so but you can likely ease off after that. Others will say differently, but I've been unimpressed with new hires who didn't show their face often.

• Is what I have just described above classed as flexi time? Or does that work differently?
Flexi Time (in old MoJ speak) is what my department now calls TOIL which is what you earn if you do more than your contracted hours over a week. You need to build up a day's worth of extra hours (7.5 hours on a 37hour contract, I think) to be able to take a day off.
Flexible working is the ability to work different patterns, including remotely, whilst still doing your contracted hours.

• Is it usual/possible to work say 34 or 35 hours a week over five days, rather than the standard 37? I know you can reduce hours to work part time, but I'm not sure what the general consensus is on just reducing a couple of hours a week
That would be part time and you'd be paid accordingly.

• Would it be suitable to ask the vacancy managers these kind of questions before applying for jobs or should this wait until after I was (hopefully) offered a job?
You should ask at interview because their answers will be very telling. If you ask after you've been offered the job (particularly the part time question), you'll massively piss people off and if the answer is 'no' what will you do? Assuming you won't then take the job, and they may need to start recruiting all over again (particularly if they don't have reserve list).
I disagree with PP who say 'don't ask, tell them what your working pattern will be,' because there are some jobs where there are set core hours/expectations about being in the office/hours worked, and if you cannot do that they will withdraw the job offer and this is not always clear on the advert.

On the level of entry, it depends on the department. MOD or FCDO? I wouldn't bank on your chances - they are bloody hard to get into (and try to recruit internally through existing CS where possible). I just sifted a job for one of them and had 60 applicants for one HEO job. MoJ or DfE, yes.