Anyone know about Civil Service recruitment?

[IPartridge]

I am applying for some Civil Service jobs and have a few questions -

1. Why does the process always take so long? In one instance taking 2 months just to select people for interview!
2. How often will interviews just be going to existing staff? (i.e. external applicants are wasting their time applying)
3. Will a high test result count for anything or is it just a case of pass or fail?

1- It takes so long because there’s a lot goes into it, the different stages of pre-application bits (tests to be done, personal statements to read and sift etc), everybody who is involved in the recruitment process also has their own full time jobs, they aren’t just sat there 9-5 every day reading applications. Also, the application stage has to be “open” for a set amount of time, which could be say 3 weeks, so if you spot the advert and put your application in one day 1 then you are going to feel like you’ve been waiting a long time because it’s going to be 3 weeks before the closing date, and they are not looked at before then. Once closed all of the assessing & sifting has to be done to get the best candidates out of it, all of those involved have their own jobs, hence time. Then the interviews, again, people have to agree to be interviewers, have to carve time in their own work day to be able to do it. It takes time!

2- If the job has been advertised both externally and internally then there is nothing to say only internal candidates will get invited to interview. They want the best candidates, regardless of where from.

3- A high test result can be the difference between being put on a reserve list or not, if there is one, for the role you’ve applied for. But a high test result doesn’t mean you’ve got the job because actually every applicant could get a high result. If you are not offered the job but did score highly on tests & interview then there’s a chance you could be put on a reserve list for 12 months so that if any other vacancies come up in the next year you could be offered one.

Both me and DH are civil servants

1. Civil service HR is shite (each department will have their own HR but having worked for multiple departments, they're all equally shite), a lot of time the delay for getting to interview is because getting anyone to volunteer to shift is difficult. It is both time consuming and incredibly dull. If you get offered the job, waiting for security clearance is even slower.
2. Generally there will be a set initial sift score that all applicants must pass in order to get to interview (it's blind recruitment, there's no way to know whether someone is or isn't an existing civil servant)
3. This depends, in the initial sift it'll just be a pass or fail. Once you get to interview it can count. This could be if there's multiple good candidates and only a certain number of positions. So the person with the highest score will usually get the job. If you pass the interview, you usually get put on a reserve list. This means any future similar roles the department can't be bothered to put out to recruitment, they'll pull from the reserve list in order (I.e highest scorer at the top and then they cascade down). Hope this helps!

Thanks, Mrsttcno1 really appreciate your reply.

I've only worked in the private sector and my experience of recruitment is that it happens very quickly, generally because managers want to fill roles ASAP.

The example I gave was 2 months from the closing date, not from when I applied. And could actually end up being close to 3 months as they've only specified the month and not a date. That is the most extreme of the ones I've applied for though.

It must be fairly obvious sometimes if someone is from the civil service based on job titles or descriptions of experience?

@IPartridge most applications are done off behaviours not CV's, which are sifted blind. Having sifted before, it's sometimes obvious when someone is a civil servant but this has no effect on the overall mark they get.

Yeah it is very different to private sector in that respect, it takes a long time sometimes even to get people to volunteer to do the sifting or interviewing, and even longer then for those people to arrange time to be able to even do the work. It is frustrating but if you want the job, stick with it, and good luck!

Thanks. Isn't it the person who will be managing the role who's going to want to review the applications?

Nope. Some jobs receive literally hundreds of applications, and that manager has a full time job themselves, there just simply isn’t time for it to be done that way. Sifting is done by multiple people and then so are the interviews.

Another general question - do people (management in particular) tend to work fewer hours in the Civil Service?

How much early/late and weekend working is there?

It’s normally a panel of trained interviewers.
In my organisation it’s normally recruiting manager, HR Rep and “independent” - outside of immediate team.

Gender “balanced” etc. etc

I've had 1 interview so far and it was with the manager and someone from another team. No HR representation

On your second point, in my experience the Civil Service has been excellent at offering the job to the best candidate regardless of internal or external. I know of many people (including myself) who were temporarily promoted into vacant positions for several months but were not the best candidate at interview so weren’t offered the role. Sucks for them/me but shows great recruitment integrity.

In my organisation being the key.

We would only have recruiting manager and one other for a later internal advert.

Nope, everyone does the same amount of hours unless they have an otherwise agreed working pattern, the standard contract is 7.4 hour days.

Without knowing exactly where you’re applying & what job it is it’s impossible to say, many are flexi working so not set shifts but just a case of doing your hours at time that works for you & business, but there are still many departments where it is set shifts e.g. if working on the phones then there is set shifts, early, late & weekend because they have to have cover for the calls.

I don't mean the contracted hours, rather the actual hours worked.

That is the actual hours worked. There is a flexi sheet to be filled in with exact hours every day, your manager would then have access to this if they wanted to check.

Managers actually if anything do way above their contracted hours a lot of the time and end up with excess flexi leave to take, it’s certainly not an easy ride

.

That's what I meant, how much over contracted hours do people work? Where I currently am it's quite normal for people to be working late nights and at weekends. And not having the chance to use their annual leave.

Just trying to get an idea on the expectations and culture in the civil service.

It totally depends on the job role, the management chain and also the demands of the business really, the same as in any other job.

During busy periods, if you have a manager working to targets etc, then yeah you could be expected to work until a certain task is done, but that’s going to be the case occasionally in any job.

The culture in one department will be totally different to another, the culture even on 1 team in an office can have a totally different culture to the next team over, even in the same office doing the same job. To an extent though you will find that absolutely anywhere and in any job you work. The thing to consider with civil service is you aren’t going to get paid extra/overtime for those extra hours, but you do get the time back as flexi, so if you’d rather get paid overtime then civil service isn’t for you.

There really isn’t one answer to give you, even from personal experience there is management who literally work solidly for 10 hours a day on back to back calls under pressure in one place at the same time as there is a manager one floor up who is just sticking to the 7.4 and doing what they can in that time and that’s fine because their management chain don’t mind that. It really does depend on too many things.

I've never been paid overtime so getting time back sounds amazing. (I don't work massively over my contracted hours but know people who do double most of the time)

Appreciate all the responses 😊

I moved into the CS from an equivalent private sector role where it was common to work late (past 8pm and sometimes past midnight) regularly plus regular weekends. I've found that I normally work my contracted hours in the CS- I have had some late nights but maybe 3 or 4 in a year (where we have a statutory deadline) rather than that being the norm.

The biggest difference I've found around hours is cultural though- there is no pressure to work long hours, it's not seen as positive and not taken into account for promotions etc. Where someone is working long hours regularly it's seen as being a symptom of something being wrong - eg work has been allocated wrongly or someone needs additional training/support - rather than being par for the course or evidence of commitment. It's a real change, almost more than the fact I'm working fewer hours.

Civil servant here and I agree with this. I’m a Grade 7 manager, I don’t work excessive hours and wouldn’t encourage anyone else to. We are also very flexible about people working around school drop-offs, medical appointments etc.

As to why it takes so long: we’re busy! We have to keep doing our jobs while trying to fill vacancies. We can’t just drop everything for a few weeks purely to sift applications and interview people - we have to fit it round everything else.

That's the impression that I'm getting. Seems like there's a much better work life balance and less pressure. A senior manager not working at the weekend or when on annual leave is unheard of in the company I'm in.