DH threatened with a PIP

[pip2025]

DH had a meeting with his manager and was threatened with a personal improvement plan if he doesn't improve his performance. His notice period is 3 months.

This came out after she asked him if he had been rejected for an internal role he applied for. He said no as while he had been rejected for one internal role, he hadn't been rejected from the other one he interviewed for as it happened last week.

His notice is 3 months so realistically how much time does he have before he is fired?! He has been unhappy in this role and has been searching for a new one.

How long has he worked there?

What are the performance issues?

Why did he lie? Do you mean the PIP is because he was dishonest?

What sector? What size employer?

There are too many variables for anybody to predict outcomes.

A performance plan doesn’t/shouldn’t mean he is being fired
It means he needs to improve his performance . If he doesn’t improve then he may lose his job. He’s not even on the plan yet, so he has time.

He should ask his manager for a written summary of the performance issues, and what specifically he needs to do to demonstrate adequate performance . He can ask for specific, measurable objectives, with a time frame for meeting them. He should get all that as part of a PIP, but he can ask for them now .

If he does end up in formal expect a minimum of 6 weeks for that to play out. But the company performance management policy should set that out. Then he’d get his contractual notice once it concludes

Honestly though this goes both ways. He’s unhappy in his job and openly looking for other work, including discussing that with his manager. There is only so long she can keep him in a job he doesn’t like and isn’t doing well. She’s been hoping he’ll get something else so she doesn’t have to go down a performance management route. Hence asking about the interviews. If he needs to move on and can’t find something else then sadly yes ultimately either he needs to buck up and start performing in his role, or she’ll have to fire him. She has to do that the right way and that’s through a PIP. It’s not a threat. It’s just reality.

He didn't lie, she asked if you had been rejected from the role and he said no cos he hadn't been rejected from all the roles he applied for.

This is in banking and for a big bank. It ultimately is because there is a lot of backlog of work and they feel he hasn't been proactive enough in getting information required from everyone involved in the process to complete the tasks but a lot of people are very uncooperative. They are more senior (MD level) so don't understand it.

This is in banking and for a big bank. It ultimately is because there is a lot of backlog of work and they feel he hasn't been proactive enough in getting information required from everyone involved in the process to complete the tasks but a lot of people are very uncooperative. They are more senior (MD level) so don't understand it.

So it IS a performance issue. Is he trying to improve his performance or is he hoping an internal move might 'save him'?

I work in banking (for many years) and it's a given that some people will be uncooperative (or rather, they have different priorities to yours) so being very proactive (as well as relationship building) is fundamental to success. I suggest he takes the feedback onboard and tries to improve (ask his line manager for guidance if he's struggling) rather than say senior management "don't understand".

Is it a lost cause though. Is he better off just leaving, rather than trying to repair a broken relationship.

They would have to go through the PIP process and formally find that he had failed to improve before going down the dismissal route; however being on the PIP might hinder his internal applications. So exit time would be 3 months plus whatever the period of the PIP is - he should check the process for a PIP (should be on the intranet somewhere if this is a big company).

If he's in a union, I'd recommend he contacts them for advice - if he has been unfairly treated, it might be that a grievance is the way to go.

snap- Head of Change in Financial services so well versed in PIPS/poor performers. If one of my team wasn't meeting objectives, didn't tell me and when challenged blamed someone else they would get very short shrift. What level is he op/what kind of salary? If senior ish and a decent salary and he's not doing the fundamentals and having to be told then yes I'd call it a day as he will be tainted as he should have never been underperforming in the first place. If junior/new then that may be different.

Now, if he has been flagging the lack of cooperation with his boss/their boss/coming up with different strategies to get cooperation which could be as simple as sitting at their desk til they do the thing/buying them a kit kat etc, and importantly raising the impact of this cooperation not being there then that's different. But the outcome probably the same, if they are blaming him despite this then that's a poor working environment he may want to remove himself from.

He has been explaining all the obstacles he faces but they just brush it aside.

He is AVP level. Sitting at their desk would be hard with so much remote working. He is new to the role, been there less than a year

He does want to remove himself but as i told him, its easier to get a new job when you have a job as opposed to not having a job. So interested in how much time he would get.

If he's been there less than two years he has few employment rights, but on the plus side, he has little to lose if he leaves. I'd suggest he starts looking externally as well as internally. You could argue the rights and wrongs of his situation till the cows come home, but ultimately it sounds as though he's just not a good fit.

He has been doing this but at the same time, just interested to know how much time he probably has. Are PIPs usually 3 months as you said? Then 3 months notice

So it's 6 months?

The length can vary. Where I work there is an accelerated process if you've worked there less than a certain period. They have to be given reasonable opportunity to show improvement and that depends on how the work is organised - if targets are quarterly, it might be one quarters worth, i.e. 3 months. He needs to find the policy, which should set it out.

In very basic terms

he does have performance issues
so rightly so he will be placed on a pip

pip is a 2 way street issues should be identified there should be support and a plan going forward with measures and review dates

being on a pip doesn’t mean you get sacked unless you don’t engage and improve

Is he in compliance? If so, my sympathies. As someone who has previously worked in a role that involve a lot of "managing upwards" I think WFH is a bit of a fuck over as success in those roles basically depends on relationships (or them being scared of your boss) and it's hard to build those relationships with no/ minimal F2F. Not directly what you're asking but I found that sometimes the only way forward was to forcefully encourage them to pass the buck, so basically "look I appreciate you're busy and have other priorities but this needs to get done so is there someone in your team who I can liaise with directly?". Then they tell a junior to do it and then you've managed to reinstate "rank" and it has more chance of getting done.

I dun want to say as it may be outing but you are boiling! any advice would be very helpful.

I work for a fintech so not much helpful advice to give, our structure is more 'flat'.

thanks so much. But i read so much stuff online that says PIP basically means the job is unsalvageable... a way of being managed out.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230718-pip-performance-improvement-plan-underperforming-workers-problem

not sure what avp is? Very hard when you are new remote and don’t have the relationships or a supportive boss but then again, if senior ish you push yourself in and make the relationships/make yourself a nuisance to people.

i think though regardless of the rights and wrongs he‘s not a fit for the role they want.

will any new department not ask his current manager what he’s like?

other alternative is to have the pip as they’ll have to document stuff . Does he have objectives now? They are a pain to do and time draining but it will give him some time and then he can look for an external job and hand notice in just before he gets fired. That is what my pip ers all do!

His current manager refused to do his objectives...

think its hard to know cos she mentioned putting him on a PIP if he doesn't improve. So my DH being naturally anxious interprets this as her wanting to get rid of him and basically issuing him the PIP or it being a foregone conclusion.

Dh has clarified that the exact wording is he may be on a formal improvement plan in future.

The missing bit there is the words after and before so if you don’t do x or stop doing y you will be on a pip so what I need you to do is …….

Surely the pip will give targets and review timescales. Getting behind, not flagging the issue and organise resources to address it, is a performance issue. Given this, why has he applied for promotions, did he not need to discuss any applications with a manager first.

It's not a promotion, it's a lateral transfer. That is allowed. Its common in banks he did it at another bank yoo where he switched role. That was actually a promotion in the long term but only after he proven himself so when he transferred it was the same job grade, same salary..

You can apply for any role internally

What motivated him to apply for a new role so soon? It does not inspire confidence and a sense of commitment to his current team.

You seem quite determined that he should leave. With that in mind, it doesn’t sound like there is a defined timescale as it is currently informal.

However, of all the people I have put on a PIP, about 80% have been successful in it, and a good number of them have gone on to be high achievers because of the focussed feedback that they got through the process.

I think applying for other internal roles so early in his employment there is a mistake. Many banks don't allow internal transfers if you have less than 2 years in your existing role. With good reason. He needs a valid reason why he wants to move or it will look like he's not committed or has zero self-awareness of his capabilities. Any other open roles will seek internal feedback so if his current manager has concerns about his performance, that will reflect badly on him and not do him any favours. Unless he's applying for very different roles where his lack of being proactive etc wouldn't be an issue (not sure roles like that even exist in banking to be frank!)1

Whilst AVP isn't senior, it's not super-junior either and the feedback is quite concerning for his level. Is this his first time working at AVP level? The PIP might be the best thing that happens to him as he will get some support and a clear escalation path if he continues to struggle. The question is whether this role and level of seniority is too much of a stretch for him and he would be better moving elsewhere, or if he's capable of pulling his finger out and taking ownership of his responsibilities and driving things (he sounds very passive by banking standards - you can get away with that at the very junior levels but he needs to start stepping up as a AVP).