Slightly weird job situation

[middledagedjobseeker]

I work for a small charity, looking for another job as a bit bored and isolated in my role, but it took me over a year to find this role (that no-one else had applied for) and I'm only getting older, so it may take a while, if it ever happens.

My line manager is the CEO and although we get on well, there have been instances like:

• Soon after I started, I mentioned that I felt isolated (I'm the only person in my particular area) and asked for more frequent one to ones with my line manager ie him, so more than once a month. He said (nicely) no, although I know that he meets with the other people that he line manages fortnightly.
• our scheduled one to ones in the online calendar ran out last summer and he didn't notice for six months. Our one to ones are just me telling him what I've done and what I will be doing, so not that supportive to me, but at least someone to talk to!
• the one to ones are now scheduled, but he sometimes just doesn't dial in and doesn't mention it. On Friday, I was in a meeting with him and some other people. He mentioned to someone else that they were meeting later but didn't mention the one one to one with me scheduled immediately after. I felt too embarrassed to mention it/dial in - am I really boring?
• I've been covering a vacant post for six months. He has thanked me for this, but I was too scared of being knocked back to ask for renumeration or promotion.
• There's a development opportunity coming up that I've expressed an interest in. He has not got back to me about it, so I'm assuming that's a 'no'. I don't want to ask because it may take me years to find another job, and it feels too humiliating to be turned down for something that would be well within my capabilities but still be stuck there.

This all sounds a bit overly dramatic on my part written out, but it's really affecting my self-esteem. The majority of the staff team prefer to work remotely, so I'm often in the office by myself and go for days without speaking to anyone.

For context, I'm very competent and don't really need line managing. I suspect this is the underlying reason for this situation. One of the SLT regularly asks me for advice and support, which I'm happy to give as I'm generally a nice person, but I feel so under-valued.

Has anyone ever been in a similar situation and, relatedly, how the jeff do you get a new job once you're in your mid-50s?

Hi OP, this sounds a bit rubbish and he doesn't sound very supportive of you. I'd carry on as you are why actively job hunting. Speak to some recruiters too so that they have you on their radar if suitable jobs come up. Good luck!

@middledagedjobseeker

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, OP.

In the 1:1 catch-up example - I would have been proactive and just have scheduled those in his diary. I'm assuming you have access to his diary - if not ask for it. Every time I had a new boss I'd put time in their diary for a catchup and would negotiate with them how to make best use of both their time and mine so we were more productive as a team.

Speak to the recruiters who are getting you the interviews and ask them for their open and frank assessment of where you can improve. This is to their benefit as well as yours because, if they place you the new employer is going to be paying them a fair whack in fees. But you will also learn, from a source outside yourself, where your strengths and weaknesses are and how you can improve for your own personal and financial benefit.

Don't undersell yourself. Learn what your true worth is on the market (again speak to a variety of recruiters but also look online for the salary ranges of the actual role you are doing). You are not doing your company a favour - they've contracted you to do a job, so ensure, as far as you can, that you are paid correctly. Just as you would pay a contractor doing work on your home.

If you leave your job the company has the disruption of having to do a job search, probably paying higher, current market rates for the right person, time to train the new person, pay recruitment fees. More sensible to manage you properly and pay you properly, surely? But a lot of this needs to be initiated by you as, currently, things are working for your line manager with little effort from him.

I'm guessing (and excuse me if I'm wrong) that you are female. Getting on with your job, being independent and conscientious, not causing a noise. Not being properly recognised (ie in salary and benefits). Most men ensure their efforts are seen and rewarded for whatever they do.

Rewrite your job description to illustrate what your current responsibilities are - not just the job you were hired to do. This is where you should benchmark your salary. Discuss this in your next 1:1. Good luck. 🌹

With respect @middledagedjobseeker you do seem quite passive. If I had a meeting in my diary and the other person didn’t appear I’d be asking them what happened. I’d be scheduling my own 1:1s, while it may just feel like an opportunity to talk through your tasks, it also helps build relationships through regular contact, and is an opportunity to discuss your development. In the example you give I’d have said he didn’t seem sure about my suggestion and ask why that was or whether he had a different opportunity for be in mind. You need to be able to manage your manager, you’re teaching him how to treat you.

Be a bit more assertive, ask to be paid your worth before you start looking for a new job. Maybe split your time between home and office so you’re not sitting there by yourself. At the moment it sounds like you’re waiting for him to treat you the way you want but not bringing yourself to the fore.

You're way way too passive

Your boss walks all over you

He mentioned to someone else that they were meeting later but didn't mention the one one to one with me scheduled immediately after. I felt too embarrassed to mention it/dial in - am I really boring?

this is the definition of passive op

you say he is “very busy”

he simply doesn’t have time for all these silly games.

Sounds like a dream boss to me, letting you get on with it and not micromanaging you

maybe it’s a blessing not having to deal with your colleagues that much

Yes, I agree that having almost complete autonomy is much better than being micro-managed, but the isolation isn't working for me.

I do split my time between home and the office - that's exactly why I applied for a hybrid job. And I still prefer the variety of going into the office even if I'm by myself most of the time.

Reflecting on it, the underlying problem is structural - the gap between my role and his won't be filled and this was the key working relationship for my predecessor. I've just completed a huge piece of work that ended up being very time-pressured due to a delay in funding agreement, which was insane for someone to do by themselves. I did speak to my manager about this and indeed this was where my idea for an additional role came from, but no-one could magic up someone for me to collaborate with about the work.

And of course it got done, so no problems that eg the board would be aware of.

Will continue job-hunting, as this isn't the role for me.

@middledagedjobseeker

Will continue job-hunting, as this isn't the role for me.

Good - but remember interviews are a two way negotiation. They have a job you are applying because you have the skills, experience and want the job for the proper reward and remuneration package. They want your skills and proven experience and should expect to remunerate you properly for it. Took me years to learn this and not just be grateful for the job offer but, once I did, I did far better financially.

If you are going to work well and hard at the job, perhaps/often going above and beyond and adding value in the role, you may as well get properly paid for what you do, rather then just accepting what's on offer but which doesn't match your requirements.

Remember your CV and updated job description are your selling documents as well as any personality/team fit you bring to the job.

Don't hide your light under a bushel. 🌹

brocollilover why do you think 'no' was the correct response to my request to line manager a role that I had the idea to create?

you said you’d like to line manager
he said “uuuhh”

you didn’t go to him with a plan, a business case, you didn’t follow up.

As I explained in a later post, I did outline why I thought I was the best placed person to take this on. I put it like that to make the point that I had asked directly.

If I felt confident that I could walk away if he said ummm or no again, I would follow up. My previous experience of job-hunting took a very long time, so I'm in no rush to create a situation that makes me feel less valued and resentful.

Thanks newestname002 I do get that and haven't applied for anything that looks 'not too bad' as I did before.

but was it even a vacant post or were you just saying that you think you should line manage someone?

do you not have much work to do? lots of time twiddling your thumbs or lots of work on and times goes quickly

You need to show a bit more gumption.
Send him the agenda of what you want talk about at your next 121. Include an item to discuss development opportunities.
If he fails to show for a meeting call him. If he can't attend book a new one on his diary, don't let it drift.
Don't word things as though you want his permission or require him to put thought into the answer. Tell him the problem, give him your solution, argue your case - although he will probably agree for you to go ahead if he thinks you are competent.
Take the discussion to him, don't wait for him to notice you.

I line manage 20 staff and I schedule one to one's every 5 weeks. As soon as one to one completed i book in the next one. 90% are face to face even though we work hybrid.
I check in daily with all of my staff and speak to majority every few days.
In their one to one's I cover workload, personal development, training, wellbeing and any other matters like leave etc.
Your Manager seems rather half soaked and I can understand why you feel isolated. Managers do have several competing demands but staff are the cogs that make the wheel go round so investment of a managers time in them is crucial.
Does he do regular team meetings ? Is he open to feedback ?
BUT you alsi need to take responsibility here and need to raise it with him. Tell him how you feel else hiw can how make the changes you need.

@Jammylou on a side note, thanks, I've always wondered what a 1-1 should really consist of, having had a few flat or downright weird 1-1s before!
op sounds like, quite naturally, you've lost confidence. Are there any cross working opportunities you cd link with colleagues on?
Also being in yr mid 50s is nothing, I changed jobs at 51 recently. If you're concerned about ageism obviously leave your age and o levels off you cv.

broccolilover I have plenty to do and the days go quickly, but I'd like a bit more out a job than that tbh.

As I've explained, I suggested that a post be created when I reflecting on my workplan and the organisational structure. He agreed and is taking it forward with SLT and the Board.

I have asked to line manage this person and explained why I think I'm best placed.

Thanks to those offering helpful comments rather than sniping. It's really helped clarify what the problems are and that realistically, they're not going to be addressed in my current role.

To be honest going for 6 months without a 1:1 if they’re meant to be monthly/ fortnightly is shocking. It’s almost like they forgot you were there? I mean it’s nice that they think you’re capable of doing it independently and don’t need watching over but 6 months? And you’ve taken on extra work from another role? Why?

I do think there’s a bit of both here- you are quite passive carrying on with your job and they are taking advantage of this. Maybe not maliciously. But clearly you need to speak up. Remind them/ bother them? Ask them for some feedback on what you’re doing. Ask them for some feedback on the job you want and how to apply? I think you need to push yourself a bit more even if you’re not comfortable with it. Or get job hunting.

Ps I feel for you - I work hybrid - at the beginning this meant a monthly meetign. It meant muddling through effectively on my own, very individualistic place. It’s gross . I like you was pretty passive and just got on with it. As times gone on I’ve realised I’ve been left to the sidelines and I’m done so started speaking up. I’d put far too much trust in people knowing what they’re doing and giving a sh*t. Now I realise that’s not the case they just want the work done, and to blame you when it’s done badly although they don’t train. I’ve started putting anything significant on teams/ in an email as I don’t trust them….i suggest you do the same.

good luck x

Also I think if you want fortnightly 1:1s and he’s declined them but others have them, then bring them up. But it sort of seems like you don’t need them/m- you are looking for more interraction. Maybe there’s another way of getting that- or maybe it’s time for a job with more human interraction? X

As I explained in a later post, I did outline why I thought I was the best placed person to take this on. I put it like that to make the point that I had asked directly.

You need to ask him - if he doesn't agree you're the best-placed person, what areas does he feel you need to improve on? Is there training or anything you can undertake to fill the gap so you'd be ready next time. You may not agree with what he says, but you'd have a clearer idea of why he didn't put you in that position of line managing someone.

Just hearing him saying "umm" and then doing nothing more is merely evidence you're too passive to manage anyone. You do need to be more proactive, manage your manager. Some conversations may be uncomfortable, but that is part of doing more senior roles.

This stood out to me OP

"I feel a bit weird when I literally have nothing to say other than 'I've done this, I've done that, I'm going to do whatever."

The 1-1s sound boring. Both for him and you. You don’t need his advice or input. The work is getting done. I wonder what he’d say if you asked what HE wants from the 1-1s? Right now, how are they a good use for him of his limited time? I know that’s a selfish view for him to have, but it’s also just the reality. For your next one think about something you could ask for his opinion or advice on - maybe even about how to get more from your role? People like being asked for their advice

You talk about feeling isolated and lonely at work and are looking for that connection from the 1-1s. I don’t think you should be looking to the CEO or your line manager for this. I’d start scheduling catch ups and chats with other people in the organisation, both peers and people at the level above . Overall I’m not sure your lack of 1-1s is the problem. It’s more that the work is isolating and you prefer to work somewhere that’s more collaborative. But you can also get that from other people on the org and not just your boss. It’s also not your boss’s job to fix it for you.

For example you say CEO is working on the change you suggested with his SLT. Can you approach members of the SLT and suggest a chat about the work?

If you don’t have a work reason directly for it, you can just say that you want to get to know colleagues more. Suggest a “virtual coffee” and see what they say.

Thanks all. It's not that I don't trust anyone there - it's a very non-toxic workplace (I appreciate that isn't to be sneezed at!)

I think the lack of 1:1s is exactly that. I'm getting on with what I need to do and more and there are other people more in need of support/many other pressures on his time.

Since I've been there, I've involved myself in all sorts of things that I didn't have to exactly to build relationships etc. That's fine, but it's pretty much all online. Several members of staff (in a small organisation) have moved home further away and rarely come in to the office now. That's had a considerable impact on me.

But yes, a larger organisation is what I need to be looking at. I do appreciate the autonomy that I have, but would like to work more collaboratively and tbh be properly renumerated for managing myself.