If I want to ask to go in at top of salary range, do I ask when they phone to offer job?

[failingprofessional]

Is it ok to literally ask when phoned and offered the job whether I can go in at top of advertised salary? If I can't it's too much of a pay cut and I can't justify it, so it is make or break on whether I take it or not, really.

I’d say thanks on the phone and ask them to email the offer, which they should. Then negotiate via email, much easier to make clear points. And I am assuming you are female. Remember most men wouldn’t even consider not asking for as much money as they can. Don’t ask, don’t get. I asked for the top, got offered one point below on the scale, it’s totally normal to negotiate.

So what actually happened? You asked for £12.50/hr and they said…?

It’s ok that you asked for £12.50 @TheMostly You didn’t do anything wrong. Salary negotiations are allowed.

I'd always ask for the top number. They've clearly got it to give so I'd say that's what you're looking for.

This is some of the worst advice I’ve read on here. We don’t know enough about the employer’s salary range to assess whether going in at the top is unrealistic (which I prefer as a description to arrogant).

In my role, salaries have climbed quickly but employers may not recruit someone for it for years (or ever - I’m often approached by recruiters regarding companies making their first hire in my area) and they underestimate what it will take to get the candidates they want. As a result, I’ve ended up being offered over the top end of the salary range as initially described for all offers received in the last few years. And, yes, all roles were a step up that I would have elements to grow into.

You can’t apply a blanket rule saying asking for X point in an unspecified salary range is acceptable or not. The important factors here are the market rate for the skills and experience op is bringing to the table and where any offer sits in relation to that.

Arrogant men advance all the time, both in financial terms and in terms of responsibility. Maybe women need to be more arrogant in these negotiations, not less.

You need to read both my posts. I didn't say that the OP shouldn't ask. My point is about the way they ask. Negotiation is about an agreement that works for both parties, not just one.

I have always been able to improve on the initial offer, and many times have exceeded the upper limit. And having sat the other side of the table, I have also had candidates accept a lower amount than I was prepared to have paid.

The key to it is to understand the market, be able to articulate your skills and experience, and to understand the full package and use it as leverage to achieve the salary number you are after.

My point was if the OP just goes in with "I want the top of the range" they are not stacking the deck in their favour. In today's job market, with many candidate for every role, the OP would be well advised to keep that in mind. Just because the interview is over does not mean they are not still being assessed.

Men negotiate their salary all the time, and fight for what they're worth. Women are free to do it, too, and shouldn't go in there worrying about arrogance. You can guarantee some men who aren't half as qualified as a woman in the same job will negotiate their salary without worrying about looking arrogant.

You can ask. They can say no. But if you ask, maybe just maybe they will say yes.

I negotiated my salary. I asked for a few points higher (I think 3?) and they offered 1, so I tried again and asked for 2. They were unable to offer any higher, so I accepted. I took a small pay cut but with the way it worked, it went up a few months later anyway.

When they offer you the job they should set out the pay and conditions. That is the time to negotiate.
You will need to consider the whole package though including pension, and leave entitlement. When I took my last job I had to take a pay cut their policy was to start everyone at the bottom of the scale whatever they were earning before. But the employer pension contributions and potential for progression meant it was the right thing for me.

As I said previously, I didn't say not to ask, just that there are ways of asking that are more likely to succeed.

In my experience, everybody negotiates salary irrespective of sex. Some are better at negotiating than others also irrespective of sex. In fact, I would go as far as to say that women are actually often better than men at negotiating.

@HappiestSleeping In what world is it "very much an employer's market"?? There are MASSIVE labour shortages in most sectors in the UK and the right candidate can name their price.

OP: The right time for negotiating your package is when you get an offer. Make sure you negotiate the total package, not just the base salary. And use absolute numbers, not relative ones like "top of band". Just say "I need X as base, this amount of annual leave etc."

Depends on what industry. Talk to any recruiter at the moment and they will tell you that there are hundreds of applicants for every job. Certainly this is the case for financial services and IT.

?

In what way?

not at all, in DH line of work it’s very common to state what you will accept where there’s a scale of pay. If they want you and you’re the best person, they’ll pay your worth.

@HappiestSleeping It might be your experience but the stats show time and again men ask for more than they are worth far more often than women.

Also, that must be very industry specific. DH is a high earning IT professional and his company and competition are throwing money at decent candidates, because there just aren't enough. Same with my mum in sales driven retail.

When they offer is the best time to discuss actual pay. You know they want you, now let’s talk terms. They will expect a discussion - generally you go in high, they go in low, and you meet somewhere in the middle. If there’s a salary band the likelihood is they won’t go to the very top (we don’t anyway - public sector). But we would consider somewhere in the middle rather than the bottom of the scale depending on the skills etc of the person. You can only ask op - don’t take their first offer, they will expect a discussion - know your worth.

The last 3 jobs I've gone for, I've asked for the highest salary range. First one was over the phone, I said I'd love to accept but can't accept salary of x, my lowest is y. They hung up, went to speak to relevant people and called me back.

Next one was similar but over email, rejected the offer and they came back. Final one was on a Teams call. But in all cases, I think employers expect you to negotiate and they wouldn't offer a range if they weren't prepared to pay that top salary.

Like others have said, if a package is more appealing, negotiating an extra week of holiday saves you childcare/commuting money so can be an alternative but in my experience they'll pay top of the band if you wait for them to decide they want you & then offer the role. They ask your current salary at interview so they'll know the ballpark anyway!

As PP have said, get them to email you the offer, reiterate your interest in the job and the company, and then provide your response in writing, outlining why you should be offered the higher band. They won't immediately tell you to bugger off - if it's a no, they will counter offer. You can then decide from there.
I wouldn't have the conversation on the phone.

I guess it depends on what you can offer to justify it. I think usually it depends on experience etc - so if you’re new to the type of job you would be put on the lowest but if you have a lot of experience or you have skills / qualifications then you would go towards the higher so work out a way of justifying to them x

Think - what would a mediocre white man do? And do that

"Is it ok to literally ask when phoned and offered the job whether I can go in at top of advertised salary? If I can't it's too much of a pay cut and I can't justify it, so it is make or break on whether I take it or not, really."

If you 'ask', they'll say 'no'. Don't 'ask', 'tell'.

I applied for a job with a salary range in the advert. I would have to relocate for this job. At the interview, the HR person started waffling that since my experience was not an exact match, the salary they would be willing to offer would be at the lower end of the range. I responded that this was a far more expensive part of the country than where I currently lived, and as such I could not possibly move for less than the maximum advertised salary. The job offer came through at the maximum advertised salary.

In your case, if they offer less, do what I did. Respond that the offered salary is a substantial pay cut, and you cannot move to them for less than £££££.

Know your worth. Don't accept less. And don't be apologetic about not being willing to take a pay cut!!

Negotiating is fine and to be expected. We benchmark all our roles annually and then have a published pay band. The lower end is for people who can fulfil all the essential elements of the role. Progression through the band and to the top is by demonstrating the desirable skills and increasing autonomous performance and contribution. The benchmarking makes sure people's salary moves in line with their position in band regardless of whether they move up in the band.

If someone with all the essential criteria but only one or two of the desirable criteria wanted to be paid at the top of the band, we would refuse. But we would be clear about what they would need to achieve to move up the band as well.

I think over the phone I would verbally accept the job but caveat it with something like "provided I can make the salary offer work for me". That way they know you're not going to accept the minimum and are getting ready to haggle.

Then whoever has phoned you will either given you a a salary offer over the phone so you can haggle there and then, or (more likely) send you a written salary offer afterwards at which point you can have the negotiation.

@failingprofessional I echo what others have said, I read some research around reasons for the pay gap between men & women and one of the reasons was around men’s starting salaries often being higher when they join a company because they are far more likely to negotiate salary than women.

I don't dispute that my experience is a sample of one. I was also fortunate enough to work for BT for the first 20 years of my career and they are well known for having a proportionate number of women in senior roles and for not discriminating for pay.

I too was a high earning IT professional, and just after Covid, struggled to get candidates, whereas now there are over 100 applications for every job. I guess it all depends on level too.

Retail I know is struggling, and hospitality too.

Is it ok to literally ask when phoned and offered the job whether I can go in at top of advertised salary?

See what their offer is first.

And don't word it like 'can I go in at the top end?', it shows uncertainty and lack of confidence. You need to tell them what you're expecting.