Grievance settlement and without prejudice meeting

[livingnight]

Hi all,

Been with my company about a year. Had to raise grievance due to discrimination due to disability, and victimisation due to bullying and harassment because I whistleblew (could only have come from me), been removed from work area, isolated, and training that had been previously agreed prior to grievance removed. This is all documented and I have a vast amount of proof including SAR evidence that is pretty damming and I have the unions support.

Grievance investigation is being dragged out and the company seemed a little shocked that I had lodged with Acas (I think they thought I would time out) before they even started investigating.

Got an asked to attend a call via HR last week about "without prejudice" call, union joined and was offered 3 months notice period and small non taxable figure for me to "settle". Union said this was pretty much their standard first offer.

Union keeps asking how much I want, so does HR (although hr rep he said that he didn't know the details of the grievance) and said Acas only gave v v limited details.

I don't know what's reasonable. I work in a fairly specialised area, in a specialised role and obviously finding a new role would be a nightmare.

Any advice or guidance ?

I have never whilstblown or faced anything like this before. I'm now feeling like I'm going slightly mad given the really low offer (which hr man seemed to imply I should bite my hand off)

Sensible people of MN help me. Any experiences advice would be great. I have no idea tbh

Yes, it’s a very stressful process. I’m glad you’ve got that worked out and my comment wasn’t having a go at you, but was rather directed towards those who were advising but didn’t seem to be addressing the disability element which is where most of your award will come from.

If it went on for a long period of time then it would fall under the higher band. From my reading around this, it’s unlikely to fall outside of the bands unless it’s particularly shocking.

@DumpsterBaby ahh thank you and no I am all over the place so any help is welcome

From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) it's based on loss of income and potentially an award on the vento scale. I don't know what else I would be able to mention.

Sad matter of fact is I just wanted to do a good job and go home. I imagine it will be in middle band maybe lower higher but that's guessing. I just don't want to seem unreasonable.

Are you aiming for a constructive dismissal element? If so, then there’s a very specific calculation based on how long you’ve worked there. In your case that would be small because you’ve not been there that long.

The next calculation is future losses. So you estimate how long it would take to find a similar job at a similar salary. You have to be reasonable about what this would be. You say you are quite specialist so this would work in your favour. Evidence would be job adverts in your area to illustrate.

The next would be the discrimination element. This could span multiple: direct, indirect, arising from, failure to make adjustments, harassment and bullying. Do not down play here. You are entering into a negotiation so ALWAYS aim high. They will counter low and hopefully you then settle somewhere in the middle. It must be genuine but there’s nothing wrong with stating your case as high as conceivably imagined based on the evidence.

You can also go for personal injury which can be considered separately as a case (think about those adverts you see on tv when someone has an accident) but for employment it would be considered as part of a potential tribunal. So if you feel your disability has been made worse, or you have physiological damage off the back of it, this can also be considered.

You also want to include a miscellaneous section that includes any notice owed (if you plan to resign without notice as part of constructive dismissal), any annual leave owed, any bonuses owed etc.

I would also include a statement that asks for applicable pension contributions on the amount owed (this isn’t applicable for the disability and personal injury element but it is for initial entitlement and future loss of earnings). You could also ask to make it gross for anything over 30k on the grounds of them causing the situation, but it’s variable whether this will be agreed.

Include anything non-financial too, such as a written reference etc.

Please, please don’t think you’re being unreasonable though. They are in the wrong, not you. You won’t get kudos for downplaying it.

*psychological not physical! Though that applies too.

@DumpsterBaby I didn't think the constructive dismissal would apply as I have only been there a short ish time.

Thank you for all the below I hadn't considered a few of the points mentioned. When you're in free fall your brain doesn't work as it should.

I am in a specialist role and higher role which means job seeking is going to be a nightmare there's no two ways about it.

Thank you for all your help 😔 you know when you think to yourself, I can't believe this is happening to me.

I had a friend wistle blow in a household brand company. She was senior manager and it made our industry top page news..The most serious part of the WB wasn't published and she got a two year pay out, which was what she off while going to tribunal. I was really shocked it was so low, she had there decades. It changed nothing and the company came out squeaking clean. I honestly would think very hard now about WB. Horrible.

This doesn't shock me tbh.

I almost stumbled into it WB but what I reported was something I couldn't in good conscience not say something. I can see why others didn't as people tend to be reprimanded for raising their heads.

I can't tell you how this has knocked my confidence. I hope your friends happier and in a better place now !

I completely get it, don’t worry. As you may have gathered from my comments, I have gone through similar. More than happy to provide any additional emotional support via DM. It’s quite a shocker to suddenly realise you’re being treated very badly and I think it sends your world view a bit off kilter, not to mention how you see yourself.

It wasn't something she could ignore either. inappropriate practice with grads. I won't say any more. In some cases when it's sexual or harmful you don't have much choice if your a decent human. But if I saw dodgy fraudulent or imorral practice that I wasn't part of between adults, I'd think hard and quietly disassociate now I think. Witch hunt would be a good analogue. Unpleasant and I lost faith at bit more in justice.

@DumpsterBaby I had been thinking it was all my fault etc. The SAR results were upsetting if at least validating as I know I wasn't going mad ! I'm so sorry you have had this happen to !! It really does knock your perspective on humans in general

@DyslexicPoster I'm so sorry for your friend. I think certain things have to be brought into the light. People think we have progressed from the 1900ths but it's shame to find out we haven't.

Update received without prejudice offer yesterday and have been told I have 24hrs to accept and it's their final offer

It's 6months notice plus holiday. Come via Union not via Acas. Waiting for call back from Acas as I'm not sure why I have been given such a short time frame to consider.

Am I right in assuming that if they make an offer via Acas can be used in a ET ?

It's quite a jump from previous.

They really shouldn't put a 24 hour countdown on this, they are the ones in the wrong and they know that you're taking advice. I would get back to ACAS now and ask them to apply some pressure for more time. There's no reason for it to be concluded in 24 hours, it's just a pressure tactic.

Have they insisted on a Non-Disclosure? Apologies if you've already mentioned it and I've missed it.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe yes they want a gag order.

I can't say I blame them for wanting that frankly.

Waiting on Acas update

livingnight that is disgraceful. So they can behave any way they like and fix it, after the fact, to make sure that nobody is ever aware of their wrongdoing?

Is there anything that ACAS has said about using the Equalities Act to assist you/add grist to the mill?

What on earth is the point of Whilstleblowing if this is what happens to people who bravely do it?

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe I imagine they really don't want this to get "out". I barely want to know it myself tbh

Yes fair amount of evidence tbh on that element too, which is depressing. I have called Acas (haven't heard back) and I turned it down as I didn't agree with the pressure of the clock.More towards the point, what annoys me is the offer wasn't made via Acas so can't be brought in ET re 24hr clock.

The offer isn't unreasonable but the time pressure has really gotten my goat.

@livingnight

• have you resigned?
• what is your notice period?

A without prejudice offer cannot be put into evidence with the employment tribunal regardless of how it is made. That is what "without prejudice" means.

If they stick to this 24 hour limit, the risk for them is that they withdraw the offer and you take them to tribunal. I would request an extension if you need it.

@HermioneWeasley in post, haven't resigned .

3 notice

@prh47bridge I wasn't going to use it in ET I'm saying that my employer isn't playing by Acas guidance re timescales,

I'm quite happy to stay in role and take them to ET

Honestly op. Given it would be horrific to stay there and you've only been there a year. I think 6 months full pay is worth considering . From a stress point of view of nothing else. Sometimes the moral ground simply isn't worth it.

💯 this ^

I am sorry to hear you’re going through this. I was in a similar situation a few years ago, questioned something I thought wasn’t right, blew the whistle ended up being bullied and harassed. Went down the legal route, didn’t do it for the money, I wanted something done about the perpetrator. Various people thought I should give up and walk away, solicitor thought I should take the settlement offer and they didn’t attempt to get more for me.

If you have good evidence against them and feel it’s the right thing to do and you want to hilight the issue, take it to a tribunal.

If you haven’t resigned you’re in a really strong position. Having employees in the company who have brought a discrimination claim is a nightmare because if you do anything to them afterwards, they can just claim victimisation.

i’d counter offer 12 months for your resignation as well and aim to settle at 9