Civil Service - Which Grade? 6?

[FishAlive12345]

I know that the only way to find out is to apply, but I am so short on time so would love to know if it would be ridiculous waste of time or reasonable to apply.

It's a Grade 6 research/policy role, I meet the degree requirements and beyond that also have a Masters and very recent PhD

Experience wise it says you need 4 years managing research - does 4 years spent managing a desk-based PhD count?

I just have 1 years part time experience managing a very small team of researchers in the private sector concurrent to my PhD

I know that most important is applying my experience to the specific role/behaviours, using STAR. Thank you!

Very unlikely you would get a grade 6 role with only 1 year's part time work experience. But you never know: if you're amazing at writing competency examples and can demonstrate that you hit all the Grade 6 indicators on the basis of your PhD manangement then at least in theory you might get somewhere.
In reality I would suggest you start looking at a lower grade.

That is so helpful, thank you. I was pretty sure that it would be punching above my weight.

I was just shocked that I technically meet the specification and wondered if I should just have a go, probably would be a huge waste of time.

Should add that I do have many years pre-PhD work experience as well, senior but not management. Some transferable skills, but a bit tenuous.

Ah - well that throws a totally different light on it. I was thinking you were 24 and had done nothing else from your OP.

In that case do use all your experience and examples to support your application.

I would apply, you never know and CS interviews are a strange beast it'll be good experience and you can ask for feedback. Just remember if they ask you about something that you haven't done before saying what you would do if you found yourself in that situation.

What have you got to lose by applying?

don’t apply, you definitely have no chance 😂

Civil servant with a PhD.

Sorry to be a party pooper but this is my honest view.

I entered the CS with over a decade post-PhD research experience, managing other researchers, and many years pre-PhD work experience.

I'm a G7 and you can't swing a cat without hitting a G7 with a PhD in research.

I think it highly unlikely you'd succeed with applying for G6, unless your pre-PhD career was extremely relevant.

Even then, they like your relevant examples to be recent (a few years old max).

However much you talk it up, managing a PhD as a postgrad student is nothing like the complexity of managing a team of researchers. It's also nothing like working in a government environment which you'll need experience of. (I say this as someone who supervised PhD students over the years.)

G6 is really quite senior in the civil service. It has a Professor's salary. You aren't going to be a Professor one year after your PhD. Why assume you can make that kind of leap in a new sector?

(And if I sound a bit grumpy this morning - apologies, it's not you, it's me )

I've just joined the CS, much to my surprise as I thought I was punching above my weight with the application too, but was pleasantly surprised to both be offered the role and to find how keen, helpful and supportive everyone has been since I started. I had strong but specific experience, so there are gaps in what I have experience in compared to what I need to do, but there is no pressure, only support, to get me up to speed on the gaps, and there is an appreciation of my different perspective. The vibe from my team is that they'd rather have someone who's a good fit but needs support in some areas, than someone who's perfect on paper but doesn't deliver in whatever way. Maybe I'm just really lucky in my colleagues, but I'd definitely give it a shot. Best case, they may waive that aspect of the requirement if they think you're otherwise a strong candidate; worst, you can get some feedback and may be able to use the work you put into your application for other roles too.

Which grade though @TravellingJack?

Financially could you go in at a lower grade? Personally I think if you are changing sectors going in at a slightly lower grade gives you time to build experience, get to know the organisation and then move up internally. My experience in my arms-length body public sector is that there is lots of internal movement and lots of assignments to 'try roles before you buy'.

I would still apply for this one and get feedback though to help with future applications.

I’m a CS and not all departments are the same - the grade and salary varies place to place. In my department - PhD people are sought after - you should definitely apply - when is the closing date?
Have you looked into Faststream?

If Op is drawn to a G6 role she's unlikely to be attracted to the fast stream, which is half the salary. Then when she completes in a few years time, it only takes her to G7.

However, G7 is the grade I'd advise her to apply to. (I actually entered at SEO, then as others have advise here, applied for promotion once inside. And happily that occurred quickly.)

An SEO salary is almost identical to average postdoc salaries. So it's not 'beneath' you.

Oops yes sorry for the unintentional drip feed @HappyHolidai! I'm not particularly fresh-faced.

Wow so much detailed insight, thank you everyone, that is all incredibly useful and very interesting to hear from people on the inside.

@PinkHydrangea you speak sense and have made me think absolutely don't bother... but then @TravellingJack and @IronNeonClasp have made me think maybe, just maybe I should give it a shot and see it as a learning excercise.

I will apply to some lower grade roles as well but there is nothing relevant open right now.

Many, many precious hours spent poring over Behaviours and STARs. But it will be a useful exercise I'm sure.

I have recently recruited 2 people with PHDs and more experience into HEO roles. I don't know if my area is the outlier but almost all have masters and many with PHDs all working between HEO and grade 6. Those that have the 7/6 roles have significant experience

G6 is much less about qualifications and much more about experience. It doesn't necessarily need to be field specific but you should look at how your leverage your previous work experience. G6 roles are also competitive.

Best piece of advice I was ever given career wise though - just apply!

Of course apply if you meet the criteria on paper. The only person I know managing a team of researchers in in user research, earns loads and doesn’t even have a masters. Always apply for jobs where you feel confident about 70% of the role… that’s what men do, and it’s partly why they earn more!

G6 is a senior management role. Sorry OP but it sounds too high for you. I’d try for G7.

Apply OP. You have nothing to lose but everything to gain. No idea on your sex, but is a well known fact women will not apply for roles unless they hit all key points and then some. Men will take risks and apply for roles where they do not have relevant experience.

G6 is a funny one because in some organisations, particularly operational ones, it's very senior, can take years to get to and can oversee teams over 100 people big. It's less about the skillset of the team and more about the leadership aspect, you can be a G6 for an area you have no hands on experience of (so no qualifications necessary).

But for specialisms it often just reflects the salary that person needs to get, I'm a G6, I have a technical specialism, I don't line manage anyone, Ive only been in a few years, in my 30s and I don't even do very much senior stakeholder engagement at the moment. You'll get a feel from the job spec whether it's a G6 in name only to ensure the skill they need gets the salary their sector dictates, or if it's a "proper" G6 that likely is looking for leadership over qualifications/specific technical skills.