Parental rights at a nursery

[chicaguapa]

Hi I'm new to this website and joined because I have a query about my rights with my daughter at nursery.

I've just gone back to work part-time and have put my 13-month old daughter in a local day nursery. It has an excellent reputation but there's one aspect of it that I'm finding really difficult to cope with.

I (or any parent) is not allowed into the play rooms to see that the children are playing okay etc. The reason for this is that I'm a stranger to the other babies/children and may upset them. When I arrive at the nursery, my daughter is taken from me in reception and taken to the play room behind a closed door. When I pick her up, she is brought to me from behind the closed door.

I've asked to see her before she's brought out to me but have been told I can't. I can't even look through a window and watch her.

When we looked around the nursery before we put her in, it was by appointment just before it closed for the day.

I'm finding it very difficult and wondered if I had a right to see her any time I wanted whilst in the nursery and in the room where's she playing.

The nursery has been going for 25 years in Cumbria, where bad news travels like the wind so I'm confident there's nothing untoward going on. Even so, I still want the image of her playing happily, inbetween the tears when I drop her off and the tears when she realises she's going home.

Does anyone else have experience of this or know of another nusery that has these rules?

Please could you email me direct as well as I don't check my emails often. [email protected]

Cheers.

This sounds extremely odd. When my son was at nursery (in London) they were keen for parents to stay and check their child was settled and happy. Parents were also welcome at any time to observe or to see their child. I'd change nursery in your position I think. I've never heard of such a strange policy!

No, never heard of it.

I would be devastated at such an absurd policy. It is true that other children are disturbed by parents coming and going (usually they want to leave with you).

Our child's nursery has webcams installed in each room so you can watch them play on the internet and keeps the staff on their toes as well. Perhaps you can suggest this to them, the installation costs can't be too high.

very odd. If I end up hanging around at dd's nursery I usually try & avoid her seeing me (through portholes in doors) because it upsets and confuses her/other children that it's home time. but not being allowed in at all is bad. you need to be confident yourself that the environment your child is in is a happy, safe one and you can only ensure that by being able to see it. we have a no-shoes policy at our nursery in the baby room because they're obviously crawling round a lot and you may have something nasty on your shoe

I've never heard anything like this, I pick dd up at different times and there is no appointment time for parents to look round. They just ask you to call before you leave. The managers at the nurseries I looked round for DD (on the wirral) all seemed to think that if a nursery insisted on appointments they had something to hide!

chicaguapa, a year ago dd1 started at the 'best' nursery in the area, which also has an excellent reputation. They had a lot of absurd seeming rules, one of which was the one you have mentioned. I was confused as no-one else seemed to mind. In the end dd1 was desperately unhappy there so I took her out. She now goes to a more run-of-the-mill, rough and tumble nursery that she loves. They were happy for me to peek through the windows or come in after an hour or so to check that everything was OK. The carers are much more friendly too - and you can call them by their first names (one of my biggest gripes with the old place was that dd1 had to call the carers 'miss x', 'mrs y' etc - she was only 2 and I felt it was much too formal).

Trust your instincts! Look around for somewhere else!

One nursery we know (in Canada as it happens, not that it's really relevant) has a one-way mirror to the play room from the entrance lobby - so parents could see in from outside without any of the children (or the staff come to that) realising that they were being watched. Obviously the practicality of doing that depends upon the layout and construction of the building being suitable, but it seems quite a clever idea to me - perhaps they could change the "closed door" so it's a glazed type one and fit a one-way mirror into the glazed section?

That sounds like a good idea GillW. At my sons nursery they have a window between the corridor and the room which I can peep through by standing on my tip toes. Although in his case I know he loves nursery by the way he dances down the corridor every morning.... Still thats not the point - its not just about checking up on the staff, its also about being involved in that part of your child's life.

Our Montessori is relatively strict on this sort of thing (they manhandled my 70 year old mother out of the room recently although I can't say I blame them).

Even they though insisted we stayed for the first couple of sessions to ensure DS was settled. While carers are not allowed into the actual room (only the hall) they are welcome to look through the window or over the fence to watch them play.

No policy like this at ds nursery either. More than happy for you to stay, watch, chat to the staff, see all the rooms where they play, asked that you don't call to make an appointment to view, just turn up, otherwise parents do not get true picture of nursery. I would be worried if I wasn't allowed to see ds apart from in the hallway.

Never heard of such a policy. I was allowed to stay with ds for the first couple of times. Its never upset any of the other children when I've gone to pick ds up either and in case there is any doubt over whose mother I am ds shouts it to everyone lol. I'd be a bit suspicious to tell you the truth if I was never allowed beyond the hall.

Chicaguapa, my ds' nursery formerly had a similar policy but discontinued it some years ago on the grounds that they felt it was unhelpful to parents. No nursery is perfect, but ours is a good one and one of the things I really like about it is that at pick-up time, lots of ds' little pals know whose mummy I am and tell him I've arrived etc. It fosters a sense of community and it means I get to speak, albeit briefly, with some of the little tinkers he spends his day with. Of course there is always a member of staff in evidence.
I have to say that a refusal to let you see into the room where she is based, ever, COULD be construed as the nursery having something to hide. I am sure that from what you say (my parents live in Carlisle and the Cumbria bush telegraph is definitely efficient!) that this isn't the case. I also guess that just finding a new nursery wouldn't be simple in your location.
Day nurseries are switching from being inspected by the local authority to being inspected by Ofsted. This has led to national standards (some of them ridiculously bureacratic!) being applied. You could find out what Ofsted's view is of this approach and if it disagrees with the nursery's policy, you could use this in discussions with the management.
Welcome to Mumsnet! But one tip - on a public site it is not such a great idea to publish your e-mail address, you will be deluged with Spam (not from Mumsnetters!).

I agree with Marina - it is nice to see the other children briefly and watch DS interact with them. One little girl tells him off for not putting his hat on (she's about 18 months) and it cracks me up.

All I know is that none of the children at my son's nursery have ever expressed the tiniest "alarm" or symptom of being "upset" by me (or other parents) being there. Given that DS often cries to be left, I found it kindest to come in with him and settle him before leaving him; It would certainly upset me a lot if I had to hand him over hard & sharp & crying every time.

The nursery often has new gals come in, doing their NVQs and getting some experience. The NVQers have to move around to different rooms to work with children of various ages. Surely they should "upset" the children, too? What about substitute nursery nurses, or days when someone phones in sick and the nursery gals have to swap round rooms, maybe even children, to keep the correct ratios. Or when someone has to come in from the office to cover? Do these "strangers" also "upset" the children?

Sounds like hooey to me, Chica Guapa (nombre guay, debo anadir!)

I think it is really weird policy, almost suggesting that other parents cannot be trusted to come in contact with other people's children. Our nursery has an open house policy, and parents are always welcome to stay. As a result, I know the names of all the children in the nursery, and most parents with pick-up duties know my ds. The nursery has a strict code about discipline procedure, which parents are encouraged to adopt, ie very positive, no raised voices, no sharp language, etc. Nobody has ever objected to me, as a parent, for example, dealing with an incident of pushing amongst the children when I am there. We all talk to each other's children as we talk to our own children. I would be really sad if I were not able to get to know ds's little friends. Sometimes ds really wants to show me a particular toy or display in his classroom and I can go and look.

Same reaction here - my nursery is totally open, you can drop in any time - if I'm passing by at lunchtime I sometimes go in for a little 'fix' - I love seeing him playing there. The first two sessions in the settling in period they ask the mother to be there to help the transition. the only time they might ask you to keep away is if your baby is obviously upset and unsettled by your visits. I've never seen any of the other children upset by other parents coming and going.
It seems odd, I would definitely find it difficult if I felt I was being kept away. I'm not saying the care there is bad, but I wouldn't like that kind of approach.

Hello chicaquapa,

I have worked in daycare/nurseries for the past 15 or so years in the US. To be honest I have never worked in one with this type of rule. Parents were always welcome to come in and visit or look through a window to observe. As far as the other babies they never had any reaction of any kind to other parents. Maybe stared but that about it. Ive worked always with newborn - 2 yrs. This was in about 7-8 centers total.

Allthough centers do have specific rules I feel any parent has the right to at least observe their child through a window for themselves. Most centers here as far as I know have an open door policy as they call it. Ive learned in the past that when you have rules like this there is always something to hide. I'm not saying for sure with your childs center but its just something that you suspect when you are not allowed to even see your child playing. I would tell them you want to observe your child because you are the parent and you pay hard earned money for this center. You do have the right I feel.

Got to agree with everyone here. This is not on - she is your dd and you have every right to see what she does and where she does it, and who with, and if you want to watch her you can. She is YOUR child not theirs.

The other children will not be upset. They should be used to the comings and goings of the Nursery, and to see their playmates with their parents. I know virtually all the children my two are at nursery with, and most of their parents.

I would talk to the Nursery manager/owner immediately (just in case it's an over-zealous nursery assistant that's pushing this rule). If that doesn't work I would contact OFSTED and raise your concerns. Perhaps you could also canvass the opinions of other parents.

Please do something though. It is your right and responsibility to make sure your dd is happy, and to get to know the children she plays with.

Chicua, this is a bizarre rule. I agree with Titchy that you should contact Offsted. How do you get a chance to chat to the nannies if you are just 'posted' your child at the end of the day. I love to sit and chat with the girls when I drop off ds, and love to see him playing with his little friends.

Besides it keeps the nannies on their toes if they don't know whose popping in when! v. important.
Let us know what they say.

I too am amazed by this thread - my boys' nursery also has an open door policy - you can take and collect at any time. You always take the children in to their room and take as long or as little as you like to say goodbye. Now I have 2 in the same nursery, the big one comes to the baby room with me first, and then I take him to his room - although lately the little one goes into the big one's room (has found his legs) and has to be carried out!. And all the staff are known by their first name, including the nursery manager. I can also stand at the half open stable doors to the rooms and watch them, unobserved. It makes me happy to see them happily at play.

I find this a very bizarre rule too. The nursery that DS was at before I gave up work had a policy of asking the parents to make an appointment (at the parents convenience) if you wanted an official 'chat' ... but that was so that there was someone free to talk to you. They had an open plan situation though so at drop off and pick up time you just went in to the room where your child was. Of course they did have a security policy (doorbell and intercom) to stop strangers walking in ...
I think it really helped my return to work, to be able to see where DS was and see his little friends and to see how the girls were with the children.
Now he is at a Kindergarten and again I see the teachers at work with the children whenever I go there.
I just wouldn't like it AT ALL if I couldn't see my DS when I went in. Very strange ...

A quick question: you say in your area word gets around fast, so if this nursery was not good everyone would know.

Yet, if parents are kept at arms length, who's to say what goes on behnid those doors? the children are on the young side to relay much back to you.

I'm not saying it's an awful nursery - if it was, I'm sure you'd see other signs. But it might not be as good all round as you think it is.

Agree with the others here who say you need to pursue this further.

I asked my nursery whether this was normal practice and they said definately not. Do query it with your local OFSTED as they officially encourage an open door policy. I love taking dd to her room every morning, talking to the girls and getting the chance to look at all teh wonderful artwork they do with the kids (even the babies!) They get round the problem of disturbing at picking up time by moving all but the little babies into the library or big indoor play area before hometime.

I went to pick DS up from nursery early (2pm) yesterday because he had a hearing test and it was lovely to go into the room and see all the one year olds gathered round the table (voluntarily) playing with playdough. All except DS that is who was behind the cots. So I could chat to a few of them while waiting for him to put in an appearance. And I've honestly never noticed that it causes a problem. Of course, some of these kids I've seen every week (albeit briefly) since they were a few months old.