Leave refused

[Ronnie1234]

There are three of us team leaders who fall under one manager. Two of us have school age kids one doesn't.

The issue here is taking leave at the same time. Last year it was initially refused for my colleague (with kids) to book leave the same time as me but she was then later allowed after complaining it wasn't fair. This was the case for last week of summer holidays & Christmas holidays.

This year my colleague has booked the same last week of August off as me no issues. However I've gone to book this Christmas off - she's having 18 days off I require 9 so falls within her leave & mine has been refused with the reason we can't have the same time off. Same reason given to my colleague previously but now reverted to me.

Am I within my rights to question my leave being refused when my colleagues wasn't refused (she did have to raise an issue though)

I'd ask to see the policy, and understand how many people can be off at a time, in writing. Beware though that it may put an end to it for all of you.

I would ask to see the policy. I'd also ask if unpaid parental leave is an option for you if you are the one with kids. Other than that I'd leave the children out of it

It doesn't matter who has kids and who doesn't.

Is the childless colleague always expected to sacrifice christmas leave, out of interest?

Ask to see the policy and go from there. If there isn't one, then whatever happens going forward should at least be fair to all.

In my opinion, Christmas and Easter should be split in half and rota'd between the three of you (if all three of you want to tag onto bank holidays), with one of you missing out on alternate years.

It would probably best if you all agreed to discuss and coordinate leave at the end/beginning of every year.

Being a parent doesn't give you guaranteed priority for school holidays.

I think the biggest issue is them allowing 18 days at Christmas, always meant that others would get zero

Maybe because lots of people want time off at Christmas, not just those with kids?

The two of us with conflicting leave are the two with children sorry I should've stated that.

There is nothing in writing in the policy & leave has always been granted in the end to the other person, but this time mine has been refused initially, I will ask to discuss the reasons why, where this is stated that we can't have the same leave, and is it an option to be discussed at the start of the year or is it first come first served.

Ironically we can't have leave in Easter this year due to an ongoing project so limits the school holidays we can take leave. However the other (childless - not holding that against her) team leader has booked Easter off before the ban was put in place so we probably wouldn't have been granted without the leave ban.

I think it may be that some rules need putting in place

They will make it first come first served for everyone if there's a fuss

Having children/no children is irrelevant really, as lots of people are likely to want time off at Christmas regardless.

Your employers can refuse annual leave if there won't be enough people in to cover, but I think it would be reasonable to ask for clarification re minimum staffing requirements.

I also think it might be worth asking if there is a fairer way of organising annual leave so that everyone (regardless of whether or not they have kids) gets a fair amount of time off during popular periods.

It does if one of them wants to use unpaid parental leave. The others cant

What @MrsBennetsPoorNerves said.

In every place I've worked Christmas leave was done separately. Everyone requests what they want and then the rota is put together.

So one person wouldn't be allowed to have 18 hours if that meant someone else getting nothing.

It really doesn't matter. If the organisation has already refused annual leave for operational reasons, it's unlikely that they will allow unpaid parental leave at that particular time. Parents have a right to take unpaid parental leave, but they can't just do it whenever they like.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves this isn’t entirely true - an employee who has worked for the employer for 12 months has a right to give 21 days’ notice of an unpaid parental leave request and then the employer must reply within 7 days in writing if they don’t accept, giving reasons such as “serious business disruption”. If it is just inconvenient that’s not a good enough reason - the employer would be expected to arrange cover or provide a good justification. If they were blue to cover last year, the employer would need to explain what now makes it impossible to cover (what has changed).

This is different to the rights relating to an annual leave request which the employer can refuse (although should follow a policy if one exists).

Yes, they do have to justify it if they ask an employee to postpone parental leave, but it would be easy enough for them to make the case that it would cause disruption to allow it if they don't have sufficient cover during that period. There are plenty of roles where short term cover can't simply be arranged at the drop of a hat.

I'm working on the assumption that most workplaces try very hard to authorise annual leave where it is operationally feasible for them to do so, because I have never worked anywhere where this hasn't been the case. If I turn down someone's leave request, it is because I genuinely can't find a way of accommodating it, so a parental leave request will also have to be postponed. I wouldn't turn down either lightly.

Of course, if you have an employer that likes to decline annual leave for the hell of it, then it might be worth putting in a parental leave request. And if there are established precedents for the business functioning well with less cover in place in previous years, then it may well be worth raising this. However, there may be other circumstances that are different this year which make that precedent irrelevant.

Ask for the actual policy as there doesn't seem to be a consistent rule. It is wholly irrelevant whether someone has children or not though.

Thank you all. I'm going to draft a response tomorrow based on there not being any consistency with leave approval. My colleague (eventually) being granted the same weeks leave as me last year, however this year I've been declined the same weeks leave at Christmas, yet my colleagues same week as me in August has been granted.

I'm going to ask for the leave policy and ask if it's now on a first come first served basis (which we should be made aware of) and hasn't applied to other requests within the year. if so surely is unfair & everyone's requests for school holiday leave should be put in at the same time and then divided equally rather than one person claiming the whole portion of the holidays.