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No more flexible working.

110 replies

UnicornMadeOfPinkGlitter · 29/01/2024 14:44

Quite a long story so will try and keep it short.
have been in my role for over 5 years and am the only person in my role so I am different to everyone else, in that they all work a full day, whereas there are periods of my job where I work much longer hours and also expected to be able to work from my annual leave. Have been sending emails and chasing queries from the side of the pool before. And also often not get lunch breaks.
now I don’t mind this and was prepared for this because I’ve always been able to work half and hour later and leave half an hour earlier.
a new manager has taken umbrage to this and has questioned it multiple times. I have always referred him back to the big boss who has said it’s fine and I’ve carried on.
I usually come in the half hour later due to commitments at home and taking dd to school as no transport from home to school. So she’s getting there half an hour early so that I can still get to work on time. (She’s 6th form so has the common room to sit in) and rarely leave that half an hour early, usually leave about quarter to ten to so 15/10 minutes early but often there until 10pm at etc.
sorry also forgot another element in that I have a voluntary role outside of work where I have been allowed to leave an hour early one day a week.

my line manager started questioning it again so the big boss called a meeting. He started off the meeting by saying he didn’t have an issue with my hours and appreciate that I always go above and beyond and work hard.

somehow by the end of the meeting because of my line manager not giving in, I now have to work the full time hours and have been given a term notice to stop the voluntary work or drop an hours pay a week. And any overtime will be given as time of in lieu that I can’t use as I want as they would rather that I say worked an hour and half overtime a day for a 6 week period and then for the next 6 weeks leave an hour and half early!!!

im very unhappy with this arrangement and said that I would want to take time off in lieu when I wanted to eg if I had a weeks worth could tack it on to my holidays. What good is going home early? I won’t benefit from that as a short term thing.

do I have a case to answer in that for 5 years this has been my standard practice and any way I can object and have my hours to changed?

OP posts:
penjil · 30/01/2024 05:13

What'll happen in a year (or less?) when your daughter finishes 6th form?

If she goes off to university or work, surely you won't be ferrying her around then?

People who work school hours usually do so because they have very young children, not children who are practically adults themselves.

Also, the excuse about having to answer emails and calls at all hours even by the side of a pool on holiday, just doesn't fly.
You may be doing it, but why?
Annual leave is just that, and surely your position there isn't that senior or so highly paid you need to be doing work on your holiday?! You're not the CEO of a multi-million pound corporation!

Work your exact hours, no more, no less....and just try to chill out a bit. Clock off from the job when the clock stops. 👍

hattie43 · 30/01/2024 05:30

If you have worked this pattern for five years have you not set a precedent for your working hours . Any changes have to be with notice and agreed surely .
If they insist on one persons whim I would do the absolute bare minimum of your contracted requirements.

Sugargliderwombat · 30/01/2024 06:41

Wait, you work in a school, are you a senco? Im thinking if it's something like this surely your work you do from home isn't overtime? I can't think of school roles that are paid hourly even though our contracts have hours stipulated. Genuinely curious not trying to be judgemental!

RowanMayfair · 30/01/2024 06:47

Why haven't you formalised TOIL? It sounds like that's what's happening but you have just been really casual about it and expected your managers to take it on trust that you're working your hours. Also of course you can't save up a week's TOIL and add it to annual leave. Most work places have a limit to the amount of TOIL you can accrue before you have to take it.

I'm sympathetic to not wanting a change after 5 years but you've been very slack (as has your previous manager) and I'm not surprised new manager wants to tighten things up.

Codlingmoths · 30/01/2024 06:56

Great re acas, push through with that. I’d brush up the cv anyway as the new manager doesn’t like you. When is the next busy period? I’d have that peppered with emails and comments ‘lucky my working hours worked out, you’d need to hire someone else to help manage these if I were working on 9-5.’ ‘Sure I can do x, that’s what my flexible working pattern is set up for.’
‘what was your plan for doing this if you had me working to the clock, out of curiosity?’

youveturnedupwelldone · 30/01/2024 06:58

If you work in a school then I understand why they don't want you working odd hours. And your hours sound a bit odd tbh.

I think it's time for you to find another job tbh, once the good will is gone it makes it hard to continue on both sides.

Negotiate and formalise your flexible working request up front in your next role and rebalance your own expectations/contribution too - don't get yourself in the position again where you're answering emails by the pool.

I don't want to sound harsh with this last point - but no one is indispensable and there will be plenty of people who can do your job out there. It's never good to approach things with the "they have to do what I want because I'm so dedicated and the children's futures will be RUINED if I'm not there" attitude you're coming across with.

YireosDodeAver · 30/01/2024 06:59

They don't value you.
Leave.

Your skills willbe more appreciated elsewhere and this employer doesn't deserve you.

Stop doing overtime and allow deadlines to be missed and projects to fail. You don't owe them anything beyond your contraxted hours. You have been picking up the slack yourself from good will but they are now shitting on you so let them ferl the consequences. They will have to find someone else to do all the things you have done out of good will.

You have to be tough on this. If you roll over and accept being shat upon, it will keep happening and become the new normal.

hurlyburlygirly · 30/01/2024 07:05

Bloody hell.

You might not like it, as you've clearly got away with an unusual level of flexibility for a long time, but your new line manager is totally right to be looking into this.

rookiemere · 30/01/2024 07:06

I would ask where your emails should be directed to when you are on holiday going forward, and what you should do if workload is consistently more than your paid hours for that

Oganesson118 · 30/01/2024 07:17

Maybe I’m being thick but I don’t understand how you work a job with core hours of 8-4 but are often there until 10pm. What school is still open at that time?

donquixotedelamancha · 30/01/2024 07:23

YourGoatAteMyFishfinger · 29/01/2024 14:50

Malicious compliance.
Work your exact hours, not a minute less. Crucially, not a minute more. Take all breaks, leave on time, take all holiday time and set to ‘out of office’, don’t work late or by the pool.

Once the new boss discovers how jobs pile up and you can’t do as much, they may well agree to going back to your previous way of working.

This. Also start looking for another job.

Spirallingdownwards · 30/01/2024 07:29

I knew you were going to be in exams/ucas at a school when reading the early posts.

Recognised the pattern of regular hours but then staying later to cover extra time for exams meaning the end times go past regular hours, workloads over UCAS submission times with fixed deadlines meaning you can't just stop working an tell some kid and parent that the equal consideration date was missed because you no longer work out of hours to get the job done.

The line manager really is cutting off their nose to spite their face. Make sure you alert them that they will need to arrange cover for these days (exams going past your end time) and bung any applications you get today and tomorrow on their desk that you know you can't done before your end time for them to check and submit.

Spirallingdownwards · 30/01/2024 07:31

Oganesson118 · 30/01/2024 07:17

Maybe I’m being thick but I don’t understand how you work a job with core hours of 8-4 but are often there until 10pm. What school is still open at that time?

If she is working in an exams department where you are getting papers and equipment ready pre exams or packaging up exams to send to exam boards in strict timelines or checking ucas applications before submission deadlines it can be quite easy to end up doing this.

YeahNahWhal · 30/01/2024 07:45

Along with recording your hours/TOIL, I'd recommend adding succession planning to your next performance conversation. Show your proactive interest in ensuring continuity for students - a shared priority with your line manager surely.

Idontgiveagriffindamn · 30/01/2024 07:48

I assume you’re an exam officer. It’s not an option to not work extra in the holidays to cover the exam results time or extra in the run up and during the exam period.
My mum was an exam officer and thankfully worked at a great school where she had previously been a teacher. She was really valued and had a contract for a number of hours per week. But the school gave her TOIL for the extra time she worked in the holidays / exam period.
You need to find a school that values you.

CreateHope · 30/01/2024 07:50

Schools are the most inflexible places imaginable when it comes to hours so I guess others have complained and asked for the same flexibility and been told no.

Blomdd · 30/01/2024 07:58

The best thing I ever did was put in an official flexible working request and have it added to my contract. It's shit that organisations are still not allowing flexibility despite the work getting done.

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 30/01/2024 08:02

As ACAS have said this is custom and practice after 5 years so you do have grounds to challenge the change.

My advice would be to log all your hours going forwards. Try and see it from the managers point of view, he sees you swanning in and out whenever you please and he has no visibility that those hours you are not working are being made up.

Morred · 30/01/2024 08:09

If you’re sure it works out overall, you need to demonstrate that to your new line manager. It is annoying but not completely unreasonable they want it documented.

Say that you understand they want you to document hours going forwards, but you will need to make a retrospective estimate for the school year (? Whatever annual period you use) so far.
Then set out eg weeks 1-3 I worked a 30-hour week, weeks 4-5 were 65 hours, etc etc.
You could say you would be happy with taking your overtime as regular TOIL - so your overtime so far has been used up in your late start / early finish.

Ask what they want you to do with the overtime worked that you haven’t yet taken as TOIL through your late start / early finish. Maybe a few long weekends? And going forward will they pay that at overtime rates, or give it to you as TOIL?

narkyspirit · 30/01/2024 08:31

Did you get an agreement in writing for your Voluntary role from your employer ? Your line manager may think you are concentrating on this rather than your contracted hours.

You should be working your contracted hours 8-4? any 'overtime' checking emails etc you are doing from home or on holiday isn't recorded by yourself and is unknown by your line manager, I would be questioning it as the manager !

Unless you are the CEO or chairman of an organisation you should not be answering emails on holiday or your time off, are your emails coming to your Phone? If they are have you got written permission for that, if they are so important that you must respond then is your phone secure? think data protection for your company. if it is a company phone why are you travelling with it?

Myotherdogsanoodle · 30/01/2024 08:33

What I don’t understand is why a sixth former can’t get herself to school in the morning??

SuperDopper · 30/01/2024 08:50

Even if you do have an implied contract like ACAS claims, your employer can still vary it or make you redundant.

But honestly, it sounds like you’ve been taking more than you give. In some jobs, you work more than your contracted hours, that’s just the nature of it, but it tends to be reflected in the pay. Sending emails on holiday and working extra hours here and there doesn’t mean you can ignore your contracted hours. You’ve clearly been taking the piss a bit and your new line manager doesn’t like it. No doubt it annoys other members of staff who aren’t allowed that level of taking the piss flexibility.

Motnight · 30/01/2024 08:53

As others have said work to rule.

I had to deal with something similar (though far less flexibility than you currently have) and just worked my hours after being pulled up on it.

I also found another job. The working hours issue was just one of many.

DisforDarkChocolate · 30/01/2024 08:55

Work to rule so they know how the set up actually works for them and look for another job. Your manager isn't going to change to why suffer.

Alainlechat · 30/01/2024 09:03

As you like your role and have a term's grace, start setting out now the hours worked and how they balance out the overtime.

My guess is that others although not in your role work extra hours without TOIL being offered. That said as your role has peaks and troughs it could well work out.

From your managers POV they'll want to see the extra hours worked first and then taken back rather than the other way round.

I hope it works out OP.

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