Fit note dates question

[r3dh3d]

Context: I have a disabled kid, she has an after-school carer. Carer is employed by us, funded by NHS. Pay, NI etc. calculated by payroll agency.

Payroll agency are contracted by me but specialise in this sort of payroll so are - how shall I say - very sensitive to the needs of the funding agency, and suspicious that employers and carers are in some way ripping the NHS off.

Carer has an ongoing health condition which has led to 2 periods of sick leave.

In the first one, she self certified for a few days (less than 7) then went to GP and got signed off. GP signed her off from the day they first saw her. Payroll insisted on taking the first day of fit note as start of qualifying period, not first day of self certification. GP refused to re-issue fit note, as self certification should cover the first few days.

In the second one, she got GP to sign off for the whole period. But GP made a typo on the fit note and put the previous month in. So instead of being sick from 28th Dec, she is down on the fit note as sick from 28th Nov. Payroll are now insisting on deducting her previous pay for the whole of December and marking her as off sick for that entire month, as well as her actual sick leave in early January. She is trying to get GP to reissue the fit note, but from what I can see she can't force them to do it - it covers the period in question.

I cannot find anything online about start dates on fit notes. Logically:

• if you can self certify for 7 days and get paid sick pay in that period, that self certification isn't suddenly invalid just because you get a fit note to cover days 8-10.
• a fit note can't force you to stay home for the whole of that period. People frequently come back before the end of their fit notes; also if your fit note said you were eg off for an operation and the operation got delayed, you would turn up to work and you should get paid.

I can't find anything on .gov.uk to cover this. I am going to need something 'official' in writing to show to payroll to persuade them to calculate the correct pay - for which, regardless of who is funding, I am contractually liable as the employer. So if not .gov.uk, then an HR advice website or similar.

Any suggestions? Or failing that, is there an equivalent of the HMRC email address for queries, for sick pay issues?

no the self certification isn’t invalid.

https://www.acas.org.uk/fit-notes-and-proof-of-sickness
The employee should give the fit note to their employer on the 7th day of their absence, or as soon as possible after this.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-fit-note-a-guide-for-patients-and-employees/the-fit-note-guidance-for-patients-and-employees#:~:text=Important%3A%20You%20can%20go%20back,need%20to%20assess%20you%20again.
Important: You can go back to work at any time you feel able to (including before the end of the fit note) without going back to see your healthcare professional, even if your healthcare professional has indicated that they need to assess you again

The issue is

1. Nowhere does it say whether the fit note post self-cert should start on the first day of sickness, or on the day the GP examines you. Payroll say that self-certification for 7 days is fine, but on day 8 you need a sick note and that note has to have a start date of day 1. GP disagrees.

2. Plenty of guidance on coming back to work before the end date on the fit note. No guidance whatsoever on stopping work after the start date on the fit note. Just not mentioned anywhere. (It's 100% obvious, of course, but I need actual written guidance that covers this exact case.)

FWIIW, I agree on point 1 that they are being ridiculous. The GP saw her on a specific day and signed her off - whether or not in the self-cert period is irrelevant.

But I do thio nk the second one is more complicated. She didn't return to work before the end of the sick note - she didn't go off sick until long after the start date! On that one I think the GP is wrong. They made a mistake and it is their responbsibility to correct it. And they certainly can correct it - nothing stops them doing so.