Civil Service : relocation

[Usernamechanged24]

I am returning to work after a long absence. My post no longer exists and I have been offered a new one in a different location (the North). I live and work in London . I am single with no children but I do have my own flat. They want me to start in February. Initially for 6-8 weeks to work from home with the intention that in the ‘longer term’ (not defined) that the north would be my location hub.

I am originally from the north and am not against moving but I have been living in London for over twenty years (continuously working for my employer: the civil service). I can’t up and move my life in weeks. They have made no mention of detailed timeframes, salary (would I retain my existing salary), transport or accommodation allowances . I am slightly terrified (I suffer with depression and anxiety so not sure if I am unreasonable to be concerned). I don’t want to accept the post and then in a few weeks be left high and dry ? Selling my home could take ages and will cost a lot : I can’t afford to pay for two places at the same time.

Unfortunately HR have said that I can’t have IT access until I am back in work (or the earliest a week before I start) so I can’t look up policies to see what may be possible. They claim no one is allowed IT access if they are away for over a month which I’m not sure is right but difficult to argue against. I have approached my union for advice but no response.

I wondered if anyone else had been in a similar position, whether I am being unreasonably worried and/or if it anyone had any thoughts on what I should ask about prior to accepting? Apologies for asking am just feeling very alone / worried about it all and conscious that with all the stress may not be thinking straight. Thank you.

This sounds fundamentally unreasonable to me. I've not know anyone be forced to relocate as part of a redeployment like this.

What was the reason for your absence?

You really need to get hold of your union rep, ring the union HQ for assistance if you're not hearing from the branch. Don't do anything without taking advice.

All I can suggest is to also work on a plan c of finding another role. Cant harm to look and apply, you can always turn it down. But im all about giving yourself as many options as possible. So whilst you speak with your union and work out what in the long term means in terms of timescales you could also look to find another role that's london based.

If an office/function has been moved out of London and OP would be redundant otherwise it could be offered as a suitable alternative (but suitable is two way and this distance may not be).

Thank you. Redundancy hasn’t been mentioned (I was top box marking and work in a very busy area). I was sick with depression (counted as a disability) following bullying by my then line manager. An investigation was held which found in my favour. I am told I am returning with support/they will make reasonable adjustments.

Whilst I was off I am told my post was split between others at my grade and a new post is now to be found for me. However they have now told me it’s in the north and I live in London.

I don’t have access to work IT. HR say I can only get it once I return. This makes it hard to see or apply for internal vacancies But I am looking at external opportunities. It also means I can’t see departmental policies and procedures so don’t know what they could be doing to help/ what is reasonable.

I will keep trying to speak to someone in the Union. Thank you again for your help.

Sorry I should have been clearer : my old office/function hasn’t been moved. It’s still in London. HR are just proposing to move me. I wouldn’t mind working in the north but my flat etc is in London.

Do you have any friends in your department who would obtain copies of the policies for you? Is there a union rep that you know who could do this?
Is your role highly specialised and senior, or might there be something similar in another department that still has London presence? Could you ask instead to be put into the redeployment pool? Your union rep should really be helping you, bit disappointing that they aren't responsive.

I’m not sure they can do this. Speak to your union, but a couple of things to consider…

does your pay go down if you don’t have London weighting?

also - are they offering a relocation allowance? I’d expect a grant for moving costs, travel between London and new location, and potentially accommodation for a fixed period of time while you make the transition.

but do you want to move? I don’t think it’s really making a reasonable adjustment to expect a mature woman who had depression to then be forced to completely uproot your life and move. Moving home is one of the most stressful life events- is that wise when you’ve had depression? It’s also taking you away from you network of friends and community which is not a good idea if you’ve had depression.

This sounds all wrong to me.

Surely your Department has roles in London at your grade? Can you not be put forward for one of those instead? Expecting you to just relocate to the other end of the country used to be a thing (but then the employer would pay the costs) but is almost unheard of now.

It would be different if you actually wanted to move, but in your situation I think you need to say that your life is in London and it won't help your health to have to relocate away from your support systems. Are Occupational Health involved? Think you need to be getting a referral to them as well as putting a rocket up your union and getting friends/former colleagues to print you off the policies you need.

Good luck in getting it sorted.

There’s a big difference between ‘not minding’ something and actively choosing a completely new way of life.

have a think about what you actually want. A flat in London is an asset and if you move out, it could be hard to move back.

do you like living in London? Do you have friends nearby?

I think HR are trying to managed move you, without clearly explaining it. If your role is "gone" they should be offering you internal interviews for all possible vacancies, and redundancy with the associated payout should be on the cards.
Ask HR for more advice, ask your union (even if you aren't a member they should provide some advice), ask a colleague for HR docs. Don't accept any of this unless you want to move, and if you do ask for relocation expenses.

Thank you for your responses. Occupational Health have said I am fit to return to work subject to reasonable adjustments. Work then offered me a post in the north. They haven’t said anything about pay, accommodation or allowances etc

They only mentioned it this week and I haven’t really had a chance to think it through. It’s difficult without knowing all the details. My mind is a bit foggy.

I like living in London but can see that working in the north would be a fresh start. But then again my flat!! I couldn’t afford to maintain two places and am not sure that I’d want to give it up even if I could.

it’s all so stressful. Think I need to speak to the Union and find out what options I have. Just worried that if I don’t accept this they may not offer anything else? But if I agree will I be committed to something that won’t work (they want me to start in February).

Well, an option re the flat would be to rent it out. But only if you actually want the move, which you don't seem to want to.

So keep at the Union and get HR looking for a local job for you. There are never no jobs in London!

Thank you. Redundancy hasn’t been mentioned (I was top box marking and work in a very busy area). I was sick with depression (counted as a disability) following bullying by my then line manager. An investigation was held which found in my favour. I am told I am returning with support/they will make reasonable adjustments.

redundancy is not about performance.

Whilst I was off I am told my post was split between others at my grade and a new post is now to be found for me. However they have now told me it’s in the north and I live in London.

there we go. Your post no longer exists. That’s a redundancy situation and they have to consider whether there are any other suitable alternative posts.

(20+ years as a HR professional and ex-civil servant. ;))

Hi OP, I’m a civil servant based in the north (but by choice!) None of this seems to make sense to me. If your team hasn’t moved out of London, have HR actually given you any rationale why you should be? Because even roles that I’ve seen advertised that deal with a particular stakeholder based in a set region, there are normally about 3 locations the job can be done from (with travel). Have you mentioned moving at all, or is this all coming from them? Can you see a link between the job and the location that means you’d absolutely have to be there and couldn’t be on Teams calls with occasional travel?

Also, I get the “no access to IT” thing but why can’t HR email you a copy of a policy? Have you asked them directly to send you any policies about relocation, or at the very least talk you through them on the phone? Could you ask them to talk you through your options, eg if you say no to this job, would you be put into the redeployment pool or offered redundancy?

As well as your union rep, I’d be ringing ACAS for advice, and asking colleagues to send me all relevant policies!

Thank you so much for your replies.

I am not sure what a managed move is . Apologies.

I did ask HR for clarification about what was happening / options/ allowances etc but they have told me to speak to my line manager. He is on loan from another agency so says he doesn’t know.

I do like living in London (friends, things to do etc) but need a job (especially as I currently live alone). My lease says I can’t sublet but I know other people do. Not sure I would want to take the risk.
it's just all a bit of a shock/slightly overwhelming as I hadn’t thought about moving: I was just focusing on getting better and returning to work.

I am going to speak to my Dr next week and try to get hold of someone from the Union. I know they want me to start in a couple of weeks but I do need time (and help) to find out and consider the practicalities. Is that unreasonable??

The manager has said that for the first month I could work from home (in London) but without knowing the practical details it’s so hard to agree ? Do you think I am being unreasonable/ is my judgement being clouded by my depression/anxiety or are these reasonable concerns? Would you be asking similar questions for assurances??Thank you. Sorry if these are stupid questions just my minded is bery fuzzy at the moment.

Let your union rep support you with this. You cannot make a potentially life changing decision without all of the relevant info and they can get you fat. So absolutely don’t agree to anything under pressure. You’re entitled to information and time to think about it!

You have to remember all full time civil servants of EO grade and above are considered to be mobile and can be moved.

Are you still self declaring as disabled due to MH? That should protect you from being moved from being in a daily commute of your home.

HR need to send you all the policies and info on relocation because they are relocating you.

Thank you. I am aware of the clause about being mobile which worries me. I have been London based for nearly 20 years in order to work. Surely they can’t just expect me to move without any support, details about what I would be paid and within a few weeks? It’s really worrying me.

Occupational Health and my Drs have said that in their opinion I would qualify as disabled as defined by the Equality Act. Not sure if that makes any difference?

Thank you for taking the time to reply . It isn’t making much sense to me either. They only raised it two days ago and followed up with an email today. HR have told me to follow up with the line manager and vice versa re: relocation policies and options etc.

I am told that the job I was in previously no longer exists : responsibilities given to other people but that they will find me a post. They have suggested this post but not provided any details around the practical issues (salary, accommodation, relocation etc). It’s not clear if this is the only option . They say they just want to discuss this post

They have said that a post in the north would be a fresh start : a couple of hours away from where I was born (I have an accent).They also said they are struggling for accommodation in London : the Govt want staff back in the office 60% of the time but they don’t have the space (have given it to OGDs). I suppose what is not being said is that it will keep me away from the line manager that bullied me/ I complained about (complaint was investigated and upheld).

if there was detail about the practicalities (my salary, relocation allowance or whatever is allowed) that would be helpful and I might not mind moving. However it all feels very rushed and overwhelming. It’s hard to make such a major decision without all the detail and when, to be honest, I’m only just recovering and my mind is still a bit fuzzy/ not clear.

@Usernamechanged24 you do sound overwhelmed by it, and no wonder. This is a lot for you to take on - especially when you are recovering from depression.

Don’t make any decisions yet. And don’t agree to anything ( verbally or otherwise) until you’ve had a chance to speak to someone about what is offered.
get the union to speak to you asap.

Also take the weekend off from thinking about it and do something you enjoy. You can think about it again on Monday

It does sound like you're being scammed and managed out, basically

I'd ask for an official offer, in writing. Including relocation allowance, raise, etc.

Say NO! I think they are being entirely unreasonable and you shouldn't take it. Its so cheeky it should be illegal as its such a huge ask of someone when they are trying to return to work from illness.
Your life is in London, your home, your friends. You are only just recovering your health, going back to work after a long illness is hard going. Thats why staged returns exist, to try to prevent people going back too fast and falling ill again. You need your friends nearby, familiar places and health services that have your history. You don't need all the upheaval and stress a move involves. Any move could put your mental health at risk again. You will lonely, in a new place with no-one nearby to catch you if you fall a little.
Instead of being supportive and gradually bringing you back in, they are doing the exact opposite in asking you to agree to entirely relocate! Its a huge ask. Just because you have no children doesn't mean you don't have ties. Did you ask for a fresh start? No. Don't let them manipulate you into believing you need one.

They haven't mentioned relocations expenses or pay. Chances are there isn't a proper signed off job spec yet. So they don't know or there aren't any. They don't miss telling you a selling point like that. Passing the buck to someone who has no idea + telling you to look at policies that aren't accessible are classic HR avoidance. Did HR suggest they knew you are from the North when they brought it up? I might guess some smart arse thought you may have family near that office and so relocating will be easy and a freebie for them.
I think they may be manipulating you out the way. It may not be related to the bullying and that the other manager is still there. It may just be because it makes their life easier. Your job no longer exists and I would guess there is no budget or a ban on redudancies. Don't turn your life completely upside down to make theirs a little easier. In six months time they wouldn't give you a 2nd thought but you could be lonely and unhappy in a job the other end of the country regretting your move and not able to move back.
If I were you, I wouldn't consider this a viable option. I think you know you really shouldn't. Say no and make them do their job better. I know you are thinking about that one and only real benefit of avoiding that old manager. I know its attractive, but that person should be more scared of seeing you; you won over them!
Choose your own destiny. Choose to keep your life in the location you chose. HR will have to offer alternatives and, if nothing suits, then redudancy. I know it sounds super scary, but the money would give you breathing space to find something else and make your own choices. When I was facing redundancy, it felt like the end of the world. I was desperate to stay, applying for unsuitable internal jobs I'd never consider otherwise. They wisely rejected me. I found a great new job externally within a month + it turned out very positive.
Don't waste energy considering this role, spend that time chasing the union, getting hold of their policies and looking on job sites.
Finally, make sure you get that extra protection offered to disabilities. You suffered, don't be embarassed to tick the disabled box. HR are keen to tick the disabled box for equality surveys, not so keen and oddly ignorant on the subject when it benefits you.

You have said that the organisation upheld your complaint/found in your favour and yet it feels like they are punishing you.
I would think about indicating you feel you are being victimised for having raised a complaint (I believe that victimised is the wording - for being treated less favorably because you have complained). Perhaps ask your union what their opinion is.

If your complaint about your manager was upheld perhaps they should be relocated rather than you?

I'm also wondering if it's legal to give your job to others permanently when you are off sick. I'm not finding much out on this by searching but again perhaps your union have an opinion.

Thank you for your replies. It is all slightly terrifying. I haven’t slept since they suggested it: the issues keep going round and round my mind. Your responses are really helpful: I am very grateful.Thank you.