References, written warnings and peri-menopause

[isabelladeste]

Short version:
Does anyone know whether an HR department is likely to mention a written warning when supplying a 'basic reference' to another business?

To give context:
Have been struggling in my job for a while. I realised recently this was largely due to being perimenopausal, combined with a high-stress workplace that silos everyone off with little sense of being part of a team, with us all working under ridiculous deadlines with little support.

I was given a Verbal Warning for performance issues last year, and was put under a 2-month review. The stress of this made me almost incapable of functioning, so I went to GP who pointed out that my symptoms (brain fog, huge anxiety leading to panic etc.) are probably linked to perimenopause. I had started a low dose of HRT a few months previously, but had not mentioned this to HR until a month into the Performance Review period. GP increased the dosage but said the symptoms of anxiety would probably only really go away once I got out of this toxic workplace.

After the second month of review, my line manager said I was still failing to improve my performance (stress made me continue to make minor, subjective mistakes that my line manager says would not be noted when other people made them, but due to the review, they were picked up in granular detail) and they escalated it to a Written Warning.

I have since been advised by ACAS that I should have appealed the escalation, as they were not giving my perimenopause symptoms due consideration when reviewing my performance. Stupid of me to toe the line and not fight back more, but I was beaten down by the whole thing.

Anyway, I have managed to get a verbal job offer for a job elsewhere which I am more than capable of doing (workload is halved, its part-time), but am terrified it will be scuppered by HR mentioning the written warning in my reference. The employee handbook says my current HR only provide a basic reference - but does anyone know whether they are duty-bound to mention the written warning?

And if so, do I have grounds to say to my HR - 'I should have appealed it, ACAS had advised me I could raise a grievance on how you handled it, therefore can we agree that you just give a basic reference without mentioning the warning?' Surely it's in their interest to not scupper me as we're all better off if I move on?

If anyone has any advice as to the best course of action out of this I'd be so grateful.

For goodness sake do not tell a potential new employer that you consult ACAS! You might as well wear a label saying "troublemaker"... New employers, unless they are exceptional, want nice quiet employees who don't get into trouble and don't make their lives difficult.

A basic reference might include disciplinary actions although they don't always. It's a two way thing though, because some employers ask the question about outstanding warnings.

If it comes up, then I'd explain exactly what you've said here (cleaned up of course). So no mention of ACAS and no criticism of the employer - a very basic "i need to cut down my hours to address stress / health issues, so this job is perfect for doing this" type thing. Having a "record" isn't usually a big issue if you can provide a decent explanation, and yours is - you are addressing the very issues that caused the problem by being this job.

Ps trying to bluff your current HR is more likely to make them dig in! You could try "blackmailing" them with your ACAS story, but they'll likely laugh in your face.

IME they are very unlikely to mention it

My guess is that your current workplace will provide a satisfactory reference for you Op, as they want you to leave.

Good luck in your new role.

It's highly unlikely given it states that they supply a basic references as these usually just include dates of employment and job title. Where I work we provide basic references and would not even include a dismissal in our reference.

Don't mention ACAS to HR (you are perfectly entitled to contact them for advice) and simply do your best until you are in a position to resign.

Fingers crossed the new role works out for you!

That's very reassuring all, thanks so much. And I now have an action plan. Embarrassingly naive at these things - thanks especially for the head's up Neriah.

A basic reference is only ever dates and confirmation of role in my experience.

Some sectors require disciplinary action to be divulged but I'm guessing you don't work in one.

We would only provide basic information such as job title and dates. We wouldn’t mention sickness or disciplinary, even if asked.

They're very unlikely to provide more than employment dates and job title in a basic reference ime (I work in HR). Many business get themselves in a tangle about what the can and can't say, particularly since GDPR came in, so if they have specified basic reference only in their handbook, I don't think they'll provide much more than the minimum.

Hi. I’ve no advice here I’m afraid but I wanted to comment as when I read your post…. I thought… holy shit that’s me!! Congratulations getting the new job when you weren’t feeling at your best. I know how challenging that can be but you did it! & so did I!! Well done putting your mental health first and treating your perimenopause. Life can feel overwhelming when it all happens at once. I just wanted to say this as I’ve literally just had the exact same journey as you.

i also think that you’ll be absolutely fine with your reference too, and I think the ladies above have given fab advice.

xx

Orchid09 - I'm so sorry you had to go through that too. It's rotten and so soul destroying.

Someone mentioned to me that I could ask my current HR to share their reference with me before they send it to my prospective employer - is this really something you can do?

I used to provide references in my previous role and not once was I asked to provide details of any disciplinary action? I have also been told that references can’t say anything bad or negative. If I were you I would be asking your new employers for a written contract asap (like today!?) so you can hand your notice in. Then sit tight. They’re not going to give you a bad reference, they’ll be relieved that you are going to work elsewhere. And you can crack on working your notice knowing you are out of there in a very short time.

Good luck!!!

I have chased them up today! So keen to get this done and dusted!

I don't think you really have an understanding about references.

For starters I wish to God that someone would quash the ridiculous and oft repeated "fact" that you can't say anything bad or negative in a reference. If it's true then you can say pretty much anything. A reference must be truthful, not "not bad".

Secondly, just because some employers only give basic references and won't disclose sick leave or disciplinary records did not mean a potential employer must accept that. My own employer, for example, won't. If they don't get that information they will simply withdraw the offer. With a few exceptions that I will come back to, there is neither a legal requirement to give a reference, nor one to force an employer to accept what they are given. We can recruit with ease in general, so we can demand what we like in references. And expect to get it.

Perversely, the areas we can't recruit enough of have nothing at all to do with references, but in those fields it IS a legal requirement to obtain detailed references, and that includes sickness, disciplinary record and more. Some areas of work including some financial services, social care, teaching, and some legal roles, require detailed references by law.

FWWIW, because anecdotes are pointless, but almost every reference I write asks for full details including information on performance against person spec criteria. If I am honest, if all an employer wants is a couple of dates I can see no purpose in taking up references at all, because it's a pointless exercise in obtaining two possibly true dates.

Sounds like you have all the answers and that is perfect for our friend here.

Anyhoo.

The best of luck Isabelladeste. I’m sure it’ll all work out and really glad to hear that you’ve chased up your written contract. My advice is don’t worry and don’t let the bastards bring you down 😉 You sound like you’ve had it rough and it’s unfortunate your HR Department weren’t aware of the reasons behind your poor performance. Sadly, perimenopause goes under the radar in lots of companies but hopefully as time goes on there will be more understanding and awareness.

All the best x