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Been called 'abrasive'

37 replies

Howmanyroses · 20/12/2023 13:54

I have been in my current job for a year and had a performance/development chat with my manager. Context is that I have been a high performer, leading on most of the projects and received glowing feedback from stakeholders and the rest of the immediate team. Apparently, feedback from the LT was that I am definitely an SME but that I can also be 'abrasive'. No further comments were supplied. What would you do? To me this seems really unfair without any further explanation or an opportunity to understand why they made those comments and learn what I can do differently. I asked to set up a further session to discuss. What else would you do? Here is an article which explains why I feel like it's a slap in the face https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2018/08/28/when-women-are-called-aggressive-at-work/?sh=105cb83b7bc8

When Women Are Called 'Aggressive' At Work

Patrima Rao Gluckman, author of 'Nevertheless,She Persisted' says there's a double standard for working women who are called "aggressive" when men aren't.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2018/08/28/when-women-are-called-aggressive-at-work?sh=105cb83b7bc8

OP posts:
RethinkingLife · 21/12/2023 20:15

Being defensive about this will not serve you well. Taking it on the chin
…
I was just thinking, 'Well, you are and I'm glad someone has finally told you '. Plenty of people are assertive and effective without being abrasive.

Interesting pair of comments. Particularly in light of the study mentioned in the OP's piece and linked later.

They seem to link with the study's findings of women's willingness to critique other women as aggressive or abrasive. Albeit here, it's with the concerned urging to "reflect" and not be "defensive" alongside acknowledging the unhelpful absence of specific examples of the alleged behaviour.

In that (admittedly limited) study, aggression was mentioned 3 times only for men, and then with supportive comments for 2 of them about why they needed more of it.

It all recall Deborah Tannen's work on women's narrow band of 'marked' acceptable behaviour relative to men's. For a general discussion: Marked Women, Unmarked Men.

https://academics.otc.edu/media/uploads/sites/2/2015/10/There-is-No-Unmarked-Women.pdf

Abrasiveness is interesting. I know leaders who encourage creative friction of ideas and are very clear that this does not imply a permissive environment for friction between individuals.

https://academics.otc.edu/media/uploads/sites/2/2015/10/There-is-No-Unmarked-Women.pdf

Floopani · 21/12/2023 20:42

I can think of people I work with who command respect, are very good at cutting through the crap in a way that throws the bullshitters and who are also incredibly supportive of others when it is appropriate. They are amazing and get things done, even in a crisis.

I can also think of people who think they command respect and are very good at sharing their opinion on absolutely everything and would drop you in it to save themselves without a second thought. They find it very hard when the shit hits the fan because they have been so rude to people that no one feels the urge to help them out.

You'll know in your heart of hearts which camp you fall into OP and then you can act accordingly on the feedback. It could be misogyny. It could be accurate.

NowYouSee · 21/12/2023 20:49

You definitely need to ask for specifics - nobody can do anything useful without it. Go in with an open mind and see what they say. It could well be misogyny but it could be something else.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/12/2023 20:51

Howmanyroses · 20/12/2023 19:04

Thanks everyone, this is incredibly useful advice, which I will follow. It's incredibly unfair that in this day and age of general wokeness, it seems that old stereotypes still prevail.

General wokeness doesn't apply to women. Sorry.

C8H10N4O2 · 22/12/2023 09:24

As a woman you are more likely to be described as abrasive than a man for the same behaviours. This goes multiple if you are black or mixed race (in which case its often combined with "uppity" and similar).

The feedback itself is useless and I send back comments like this on my people, asking for clarifications/examples as I don't accept such terms without further explanation.

Set up the discussion with your line manager and ask them to explore the background to the comments further as you cannot change anything with subjective comments (especially subjective comments out of line with other feedback).

In many industries being an SME means giving news people don't want to hear at times. If that is the root of it then its worth looking at how you are giving bad news but first of all look at the examples and consider how a white man would be assessed for the same behaviour (as this will drive how you deal with it).

Undineimmor · 22/12/2023 09:32

I've noticed there is a way to have difficult conversations nicely. Be positive, complimentary and respectful and focus on the problem not the person. Try to solve the problem with out unnecessary criticism. I would say that there have been times where I have been snappy, due to lots of external pressures, but that is not any staff member's fault and I have worked very hard to always present a polite, positive facade and will keep working on it.

Self reflection and ability to take criticism are really important. Much better to ask for specific examples, address the problem and try to do better than to argue.

Direct women always get this tbh. However, just soften what you say a little.

Mangledrake · 22/12/2023 11:42

I wouldn't overdo the reflection unless something springs to mind. You could drive yourself mad. It could be a throwaway comment.

Just be honest. That feedback about being abrasive was a surprise. I would like to make sure I'm not coming across that way. If you can please give me some examples I will work on this. At the moment I really don't have any idea what you mean but I will commit to working on this.

Advantages include - you're making it easier to resolve this if there are examples. But you are also calling them on the issue by insisting on taking it seriously. If they come back with .. ah well, just one or two comments, probably doesn't mean anything, you'll know not to take them seriously and can ask to have it removed.

SirChenjins · 22/12/2023 11:51

As pp have said, you need concrete examples before deciding whether you're bold and assertive or whether you really are abrasive. If it's the former then great, but if you have been abrasive when it's not appropriate then it's a development opportunity to be seized. Women can be both - I've worked with many who are bold and assertive and they're not called abrasive.

Zigzagga · 22/12/2023 19:23

This exact same thing happened to me. The chair and the CFO - both men said I was aggressive in my communication. Not a problem for anyone else....I've always been praised for my diplomacy skills and I make a conscious effort to stay professional. But as a senior leader I feel I need to stick to my guns at time - they don't like it that I don't just roll over for them.

Tbh when I got given the feedback I just said 'Ok that's noted' and moved swiftly on.

Grumpsy · 22/12/2023 19:26

RethinkingLife · 20/12/2023 15:34

OP, I'd agree that the comments aren't actionable feedback without some specifics.

I've never forgotten reading about this study. I issue a reminder before review time and if reviews has critical feedback I ask them to rewrite it if it doesn't contain actionable recommendations.

This is the study referenced in the Forbes piece.

There’s a common perception that women in technology endure personality feedback that their male peers just don’t receive. Words like bossy, abrasive, strident, and aggressive are used to describe women’s behaviors when they lead; words like emotional and irrational describe their behaviors when they object. All of these words show up at least twice in the women’s review text I reviewed, some much more often. Abrasive alone is used 17 times to describe 13 different women. Among these words, only aggressive shows up in men’s reviews at all. It shows up three times, twice with an exhortation to be more of it.

https://web.stanford.edu/dept/radiology/cgi-bin/raddiversity/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/TheAbrasivenessTrap.pdf

I wish these style of comments weren't so common that they're a cliché.

You can add flippant to that list, and brash - I’ve had both 🙄

WeaselCheeks · 22/12/2023 19:32

Definitely ask for examples - explain that you aren't aware of any instances of being abrasive, so you'd like to know what made this comment come up, so you can avoid any misunderstandings in the future.

There are potentially a few outcomes :

  1. They give you examples which you realise, "Fuck, actually I can see how that can be seen as being obnoxious, best be aware of that".

  2. They give you examples which are just examples of you being professionally assertive, at which point you realise that they're misogynistic pricks.

  3. They can't give you solid examples, and instead um and ah, and say that it's more of a general vibe - at which point you realise that they're misogynistic pricks.

Oblomov23 · 22/12/2023 20:44

Can't wait to see what their examples are.....

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