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'Critical' of colleague

22 replies

Ivy10 · 16/12/2023 21:33

I work in a small but pressured organisation, I love my job and am heavily invested. I have been there 8 years and am well respected by the management and work closely with the CEO and deal with all HR issues with him. I adore my colleagues and over the years there have been some team issues, quickly resolved and the team were a really happy group, working well together. A new director started in the summer. She is really lovely and is well liked but a total people pleaser, incapable of having any 'difficult' conversations with her team. One division who works for her (mostly new and young employees) are very vocal, always complaining. We offer hybrid working and they often don't come in on expected days basically running riot since she started, the old director would have nipped this in the bud straight away. I raised this with her a couple of times in the last six months explaining that this will have a knock on effect if no action was taken. Some complaints were received from other teams about the conduct of this group and issues were also raised in exit interviews to management - still no action taken - lots of navel gazing and discussion and general excuses made about the behavior of this group. We have just had our year end appraisals - about a third of the company have raised an issue with this group, threats to leave by senior and long standing members of staff and the new director is still dragging their heals about dealing with the situation. The CEO is now involved and trying to implement changes that will put a stop to the negative behavior, creating loads of extra work for me and push back from this group who are all expecting better terms or promotions (the new director is all for this which will further upset those who have raised complaints) I am absolutely furious and frustrated that she has allowed this to happen by not addressing the situation months ago and unfortunately it is pretty obvious - when she makes excuses playing down the situation I am literally batting back furious emails. She has now said she is upset I am being critical of her (which I know I am) but she does not seem to take any responsibility for the outcome of her lack of action or bad decisions or have any concern for those who have raised issues. I have to work closely with this director, who is slightly senior to me and I do feel guilty that they are upset and have apologised, but really don't know how we can work together going forward, I certainly won't be able to give an honest opinion about anything for fear of being 'critical' and really struggle with their approach. I am loyal to the company, my lovely colleagues and the CEO (I don't know if they share my frustration) so am really conflicted. The CEO says once the changes are made things will be better in the new year - any advice on how to manage my frustration going forward.....

OP posts:
youveturnedupwelldone · 17/12/2023 08:54

What changes is the ceo making? Replacing the director in question?

Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 14:36

youveturnedupwelldone · 17/12/2023 08:54

What changes is the ceo making? Replacing the director in question?

New policies outlining what is acceptable and starting disciplinary measures in the new year if staff are not keeping to the policy. I don't want this director to leave, as I said they are lovely but have a very collaborative approach which means they literally have to discuss everything without making an decision. ever.

OP posts:
QueenCoconut · 17/12/2023 14:51

I’d say if the new director is senior to you, the CEO is there to work with her to resolve any issues and you should stick to your department and focus on your objectives. Pointing out anything that you perceive as “soft” approach in the new director’s way of managing her team is not your role, in fact I’d say it’s unprofessional to criticise senior colleagues’ in this way. She has been chosen by the CEO to do the job so must be qualified and skilled to do it, you questioning it is a direct criticism of both the new colleague and your CEO’s choice to employ her.
I understand your team is affected- your role is to deal with your team and escalate any issues you need help with resolving, without blaming senior colleagues for the problems. If she is at fault your CEO will most likely come to this conclusion without your help.

Izit · 17/12/2023 14:53

You’re not her manager. Butt out and let the CEO deal with this. You’re overstepping massively.

TurnthePotatoes · 17/12/2023 14:55

OP your role here is unclear. Are you HR? A peer/lower level that this director?
How are the CEO's changes creating extra work for you?
Usually I'd say not your circus not your monkeys but it seems that you're involved in this somehow without the requisite influence.

Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 14:57

QueenCoconut · 17/12/2023 14:51

I’d say if the new director is senior to you, the CEO is there to work with her to resolve any issues and you should stick to your department and focus on your objectives. Pointing out anything that you perceive as “soft” approach in the new director’s way of managing her team is not your role, in fact I’d say it’s unprofessional to criticise senior colleagues’ in this way. She has been chosen by the CEO to do the job so must be qualified and skilled to do it, you questioning it is a direct criticism of both the new colleague and your CEO’s choice to employ her.
I understand your team is affected- your role is to deal with your team and escalate any issues you need help with resolving, without blaming senior colleagues for the problems. If she is at fault your CEO will most likely come to this conclusion without your help.

But I did escalate the problems, several times, along with others and there was no action resulting in now a much larger problem. I agree I definitely want to just get on with my job and have a good relationship with her (the new director) but I am livid!!

OP posts:
SisterMichaelsHabit · 17/12/2023 14:57

I wouldn't have apologised for coming across as 'critical' when in fact you are giving her feedback that she needs to hear.

She isn't going to last very long in a senior leadership role ANYWHERE if she can't take criticism on board and deflects by accusing you and making out she's been wronged by you instead of actually doing her job and dealing with the issues raised.

She might be senior in the organisational structure but as HR you should be empowered to deal with issues with any member of staff including those "above" you, you're effectively outside the pecking order otherwise HR doesn't function properly.

From now on, CC in her manager (the CEO?) for every conversation with her and ensure they are aware of the issues. Maybe you need to call a meeting with her and the CEO in the New Year and you or they actually tell her the issues she needs to deal with.

SawX · 17/12/2023 15:04

Ooh boy. There are major red flags here that you vastly overestimate your role (e.g. you're so trusted, the CEO's right-hand-woman, but you don't know what the CEO really thinks about this situation) and overstep. You're not HR but insert yourself in all the juicy HR situations. You somehow know what everybody in the organisation has said in their reviews. You're the only one smart enough to have anticipated the effect this team would have.

You need to step wayyyyy back.

TurnthePotatoes · 17/12/2023 15:04

SisterMichaelsHabit · 17/12/2023 14:57

I wouldn't have apologised for coming across as 'critical' when in fact you are giving her feedback that she needs to hear.

She isn't going to last very long in a senior leadership role ANYWHERE if she can't take criticism on board and deflects by accusing you and making out she's been wronged by you instead of actually doing her job and dealing with the issues raised.

She might be senior in the organisational structure but as HR you should be empowered to deal with issues with any member of staff including those "above" you, you're effectively outside the pecking order otherwise HR doesn't function properly.

From now on, CC in her manager (the CEO?) for every conversation with her and ensure they are aware of the issues. Maybe you need to call a meeting with her and the CEO in the New Year and you or they actually tell her the issues she needs to deal with.

Agreed.
As an aside good management and being good at 'the job' are two different things.
I've seen rainmakers hired into director level positions so they could be renumerated appropriately but really. Little or no management skills, conflict avoidant, etc.
OP if you are HR you might want to consider whether this person should be managing a team. If they've been hired because they're good at another aspect you might consider making them an individual contributor and hiring a good manager instead.

@SawX I'm wondering if the org doesn't actually HAVE HR. leading to someone (e.g. the OP) being the default to handle issues.

If this is the case OP... you might want to suggest hiring a professional, a HR consultancy at least if you don't want to spring for full-time HR but as PP pointed out this needs a 'neutral' third party.

Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 15:07

SisterMichaelsHabit · 17/12/2023 14:57

I wouldn't have apologised for coming across as 'critical' when in fact you are giving her feedback that she needs to hear.

She isn't going to last very long in a senior leadership role ANYWHERE if she can't take criticism on board and deflects by accusing you and making out she's been wronged by you instead of actually doing her job and dealing with the issues raised.

She might be senior in the organisational structure but as HR you should be empowered to deal with issues with any member of staff including those "above" you, you're effectively outside the pecking order otherwise HR doesn't function properly.

From now on, CC in her manager (the CEO?) for every conversation with her and ensure they are aware of the issues. Maybe you need to call a meeting with her and the CEO in the New Year and you or they actually tell her the issues she needs to deal with.

Thank you - yes you have hit the nail on the head here, we have all had a meeting with the CEO and yes they appreciate the issues and have an action plan in place. As I have the HR function in the organisation I kept receiving these complaints and forwarding to the new director (who had also received some directly) for action as I know it was not my place to wade in and speak to her team about the problems. But she would not do anything and now more and more complaints have been raised at year end in individual meetings with threats to leave by really valuable colleagues. So all in all I need to try to work out how to reign it in as others have said and try to work out how to work with them going forward but it is going to be really difficult.

OP posts:
Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 15:08

SawX · 17/12/2023 15:04

Ooh boy. There are major red flags here that you vastly overestimate your role (e.g. you're so trusted, the CEO's right-hand-woman, but you don't know what the CEO really thinks about this situation) and overstep. You're not HR but insert yourself in all the juicy HR situations. You somehow know what everybody in the organisation has said in their reviews. You're the only one smart enough to have anticipated the effect this team would have.

You need to step wayyyyy back.

The HR function is in my job description and my remit.

OP posts:
Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 15:22

TurnthePotatoes · 17/12/2023 15:04

Agreed.
As an aside good management and being good at 'the job' are two different things.
I've seen rainmakers hired into director level positions so they could be renumerated appropriately but really. Little or no management skills, conflict avoidant, etc.
OP if you are HR you might want to consider whether this person should be managing a team. If they've been hired because they're good at another aspect you might consider making them an individual contributor and hiring a good manager instead.

@SawX I'm wondering if the org doesn't actually HAVE HR. leading to someone (e.g. the OP) being the default to handle issues.

If this is the case OP... you might want to suggest hiring a professional, a HR consultancy at least if you don't want to spring for full-time HR but as PP pointed out this needs a 'neutral' third party.

Edited

A professional HR 'neutral' third party has been involved at the request of the CEO has spoken to colleagues and completed a report confirming everything I have said to date which has only added to my huge annoyance. This is now being sent to the board and why new policies are being implimented.

The new director is very good in a lot of areas and I do really like them but just not good, in my opinion everyone and yes that might not be worth very much (!!) at this part of their job. I have suggested some management training for a departments heads and suggested that the neutral HR company run this course, I think this will be taken forward in the new year.

OP posts:
QueenCoconut · 17/12/2023 15:23

Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 14:57

But I did escalate the problems, several times, along with others and there was no action resulting in now a much larger problem. I agree I definitely want to just get on with my job and have a good relationship with her (the new director) but I am livid!!

If you did escalate several times and no action has been taken, you should now step back and let your senior colleagues handle the company issues as they see fit.
perhaps your CEO does not need your input as much as you think they do …you need to understand that you don’t run the company and you can’t control every situation. HR is a support function and that’s what you’re there for.
Your CEO and your senior colleagues will handle the situation (without your input unless you are specifically asked to help.)
You’ve done your bit by escalating, now step back before you destroy your reputation .

TurnthePotatoes · 17/12/2023 15:29

QueenCoconut · 17/12/2023 15:23

If you did escalate several times and no action has been taken, you should now step back and let your senior colleagues handle the company issues as they see fit.
perhaps your CEO does not need your input as much as you think they do …you need to understand that you don’t run the company and you can’t control every situation. HR is a support function and that’s what you’re there for.
Your CEO and your senior colleagues will handle the situation (without your input unless you are specifically asked to help.)
You’ve done your bit by escalating, now step back before you destroy your reputation .

Wrong. HR isn't just a 'support function' they're responsible for handling all of this. @SisterMichaelsHabit seems to be the only person here who actually understands that their remit extends beyond company hierarchy. More importantly, their job is to protect the company from being destroyed by the actions of any individual employee. Whether said employee is an apprentice or CEO.

OP - what exactly did you say that was deemed 'critical'? Of course, if you'd sent an emotional tirade you'd be in the wrong. But if you had simple stated fact - that her team are not following policy, that she can take X, Y and Z steps to implement. You're not wrong. You're simply doing your job. She, however, isn't.

Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 15:39

TurnthePotatoes · 17/12/2023 15:29

Wrong. HR isn't just a 'support function' they're responsible for handling all of this. @SisterMichaelsHabit seems to be the only person here who actually understands that their remit extends beyond company hierarchy. More importantly, their job is to protect the company from being destroyed by the actions of any individual employee. Whether said employee is an apprentice or CEO.

OP - what exactly did you say that was deemed 'critical'? Of course, if you'd sent an emotional tirade you'd be in the wrong. But if you had simple stated fact - that her team are not following policy, that she can take X, Y and Z steps to implement. You're not wrong. You're simply doing your job. She, however, isn't.

I outlined the number of complaints and what they were and asked if they could now speak to their team so they were aware that their behavior was upsetting colleagues. I referred to my previous emails sent over the previous months and outlined the report from the external HR and copied in the CEO. I said that we could get advice from the external HR if needed. But the tone of the email did show that I was frustrated.

OP posts:
TurnthePotatoes · 17/12/2023 15:50

Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 15:39

I outlined the number of complaints and what they were and asked if they could now speak to their team so they were aware that their behavior was upsetting colleagues. I referred to my previous emails sent over the previous months and outlined the report from the external HR and copied in the CEO. I said that we could get advice from the external HR if needed. But the tone of the email did show that I was frustrated.

Well I wouldn't be beating myself up about one frustrating email if I were you. But as to how you can work with her... be firm and factual. Don't show any frustration, besides the company is on your side.
Why has your CEO not started performance managing this director?

Spirallingdownwards · 17/12/2023 15:57

The error was in apologising to her when you should have just asked her to deal with the issues within her team promptly and to let you know when she had spoken to her team so that other staff members could be informed they were now aware of the problems and how they would be disciplined going forward.

FedUpMumof10YO · 17/12/2023 16:10

So people want to wfh and are not coming in? Or have I got it wrong.

Ivy10 · 17/12/2023 16:13

FedUpMumof10YO · 17/12/2023 16:10

So people want to wfh and are not coming in? Or have I got it wrong.

Several complaints raised about this point amongst other things

OP posts:
Aprilx · 17/12/2023 16:43

I am not sure of your role in this because you say you are HR but you also mention a third party HR function. Anyway if you are HR then yes I can see this is a reason for you to raise it with her as it is against company policy. But beyond that I think you are over stepping, if she wants to ignore that part of policy, it is really for her line manager to address with her not you. This is her department not yours.

Sisterpita · 17/12/2023 17:47

@Ivy10 you are between a rock and a hard place. What you need to be is strategic.

The new director is never going to be the manager the organisation needs, but does have strengths which appear to be sufficient for the CEO. As HR you do not want to be the one doing the managing, it is not your job, but poor managers will happily let you do it.

What you need is a new role that is specifically management, they need to be at the right level and take on the management elements of the directors role.

You should be aware of who is a good manager in the organisation, the one that knows and follows policies, the one who does proper performance management, who does tackle issues but in the right way so they are respected and not seen as bullying.

Identify the right person, and do a business case to the CEO setting out how they can be given the authority to do the job that needs doing. Make it clear the risks to the business - loosing good staff, deteriorating behaviour, cost (£) of team not being properly managed etc. You also need to point out that once an effective manager is in place there will be a number of grievances as the team who have been allowed to get away with it won’t like it one bit.

If there isn’t anyone internal get a fixed term appointment in.

Give the CEO a solution that works but make it clear the new director and CEO must back the manager 100% and any wobbling/ not following through on their part is likely to lead to bigger issues e.g. good staff resigning.

Neriah · 17/12/2023 18:13

Izit · 17/12/2023 14:53

You’re not her manager. Butt out and let the CEO deal with this. You’re overstepping massively.

This.

Where these issues impact on you or your team, you speak to your line manager. Outside of this, none of it is your business or your concern.

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