Maternity leave and SMP complications

[lauribec]

Apologies in advance, I think I just need somewhere to vent! (I’ve posted this elsewhere, thought I’d try this thread too)

I was working for a company doing changeovers in holiday lets, general cleaning/laundry etc in their home and offices. Looking after their animals when they went away, nothing glamorous but it fitted in with school hours.

I went on maternity leave in the middle of June, fast forward to the middle of October and my bosses unexpectedly turned up at my front door to tell me I was being made redundant. They claimed they had no bookings in their holiday lets until April next year and they couldn’t justify keeping me on. I was very understanding and explained I hadn’t been able to sort childcare yet for my baby anyway and possibly used the wrong word here but told them not to feel guilty as these things happen. One of them was very quick to reply “oh we don’t feel guilty at all!” They also handed me a letter which confirmed my redundancy and that my final payment would be made on October 31st which consisted of the SMP for that month and my accrued holiday pay.

A couple of days later once I’d got my head around things a bit and after a phone call to citizens advice to check I was correct, I emailed just to clarify that I would be getting my SMP payments for a total of 39 weeks like I was entitled to and she emails me back to say she will look into it. A short while later she emails again to say I was correct. The end of November came and went with no payment from them (or so I thought haha) I gave them a few days as payments from them were usually late anyway and yesterday I emailed to let her know my SMP payment for November hadn’t gone in to which she replied it did on the 24th (they’ve never been early with a payment ever so I missed it on my statement) and that it was a reduced payment of £106 due to a discrepancy in October. She then offered to drop the paperwork around to my house but I emailed back to say any correspondence is to now be done via email.

By my workings out I’m entitled to £156.66/week (lower than 90% of my wages) so how have they come to the conclusion that I’m only entitled to less than a weeks worth of SMP for an entire month? Am I being completely stupid here?! Admittedly I’m yet to find out what this “discrepancy” is as apparently she can’t email me until Monday. Can they deduct from my SMP because they’ve given me holiday pay? I don’t understand how they’ve come to this conclusion!

In October I was paid £689.92, the month of the discrepancy. By my maths that makes it an overpayment of £63.28 so this should make Novembers payment £563.36 not £106?

We went online to check their bookings and they’re booked up more than they aren’t! I’ve walked the dog up past their farm a couple of times and they’ve had guests in there on the dates they’re booked up online (just to add salt to the wound I happen to live right next door to them) so they stood in my kitchen cuddling my kitten and lied to my face. My uncle used to work for them too and thinks the world of them so I haven’t yet told my family (bar my mum) what’s going on. I don’t know whether I’m more upset or angry right now, I’ve got 3 children and don’t know how I’m going to cope.

When I interviewed for this job they told me how flexible they were yet every time I tried to book time off to look after the kids during holidays it was always an issue and one day they sat me down to see if we’d be able to come to some sort of agreement whereby my OH would do unpaid building work for them (he’s a builder by trade) in exchange for me being able to take time off over the summer to look after the kids. This never came to be as he wasn’t happy with this idea and frankly I don’t blame him. When I was heavily pregnant I had pressed the wrong set of sheets for a bed and was pressing the right ones to take over to the holiday let, bearing in mind this didn’t affect the family being able to get in on time at all and she made a point of coming to see me and said “I don’t want to have to tell you to leave but if I feel I have to then I will”. They’ve just generally not been the nicest of people to deal with.

I’m sorry I think I just needed somewhere to put my thoughts into words, don’t know whether I’m coming or going haha!

Separate emotion from this and get more help from Citizens Advice and the org Pregnant Then Screwed.

You need to sort the mat pay issue and get what you're entitled to. It's the government that gives them the money so they won't be out of pocket.

Then pursue the potentially unlawful redundancy separately.

@TookTheBook think this is partly the problem, emotions are high possibly due to having a baby 5 months ago haha! My mum also keeps telling me to be careful not to upset them etc as I live so close to them which isn’t really helpful. Citizens advice were great when I contacted them regarding them thinking they could just stop paying SMP but weren’t as helpful with my current issue. Hadn’t heard of pregnant then screwed until yesterday so will look into that properly, thank you! :) I don’t understand how they can think it’s right to deduct it so considerably, would love to know where they get all this advice from haha!

I’m finding it difficult to follow your post. I don’t know who “she” is and I don’t know why you’re not getting £172.48 or 90% of earnings. It sounds like you’re not sure what you’re entitled to either. You need to take some proper advice. Maternity Action or Pregnant The Screwed can help.

@PurBal sorry she = the boss. Well there are 2, husband and wife but she is the one who communicates via email.

Not sure where the £172.48 has come from? When you’re claiming SMP you’re either entitled to £156.66/week or 90% of your average gross weekly earnings (whichever is less) so in my case I should get £156.66/week. After the first 6 weeks as you are paid 90% of your earnings for that time.

Thank you, will look into them today

They can't just stop paying you your SMP. They are fully reimbursed by the government. How long has you worked for them. ?

@ginislife I honestly think they would have if I hadn’t chased it up initially! It just makes no sense really, it’s not a financial loss to them whatsoever. I was only there 18 months before leaving to have my baby

SMP is now £172.48 per week not £156.66.
i second contacting pregnant then screwed.
https://www.gov.uk/maternity-pay-leave/pay

@Jammymare ah thank you! Didn’t know this. Will look into them once I drop the kids to school today :)

That's what PP was talking about with the SMP figures.

Sorry you're going through this. You need to speak with pregnant then screwed. They will be able to guide you. X

Sorry, X post!

@Denimdenimdenim sorry I get what was meant now haha! When I last googled it was £156.66 so couldn’t understand where the other figure came from! Assuming this must be a recent change? Thank you, will have a good look at them today :)

Leave all the last 3 paragraphs out of it. If you want to to win this battle quickly you need to stick to facts.

@salamirose fully appreciate that, just felt good to get it off my chest

@lauribec it changed in April! So if you've been short-changed this whole time, I would be speaking with the citizens advice/pregnant then screwed about that also. If that is the case, of course.

What a nightmare for you. Hope you get it sorted

@Denimdenimdenim oh blimey! For some reason every time I’ve googled it’s been coming up with the old amount. Definitely going to look back over what I’ve been paid because none of this has been right. Naively thought I’d go on maternity leave and be treated properly so I could just enjoy my
time with my baby. What a fool haha! Thank you, appreciate the help :)

Write to them setting out your SMP entitlement with links to the relevant page. Ask for arrears to be paid by (enter a date). Advise them that annual leave cannot be used to offset SMP and you want your remaining holiday pay. Also ask for your full notice pay (you are entitled to this on top of SMP) and any redundancy pay you are entitled to. https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights/redundancy-pay

At the date stated if you have not received the money send a letter before action (Google it). If no response/money lodge a claim with small claims court.

I would also report them to HMRC.

Ah yes understandable was just trying to help. Cold hard legal facts is what will sort this out

@salamirose hope I didn’t come across as rude! You’re absolutely right, they can’t argue the facts at the end of the day. Hoping I’ll just be able to get it sorted myself without having to escalate things. I need to know about this “discrepancy” before I can continue

@lauribec be very careful they don’t use the “discrepancy” to remove your legal rights. There are timelines to take action so start putting everything in writing with clear deadlines.

If they do the oh we don’t need to put it in writing we can keep this friendly approach - it’s bullshit. Send emails as per conversation you said xyz.

@Sisterpita is this something they’re able to do quite easily ? Sorry I’ve no clue about these things at all! I’ve not yet found out what this “discrepancy” is either. We’ve come to the conclusion the only thing they could be referring to is the holiday pay. Hoping to find out Monday. I knew there was a timeline if I wanted to dispute the redundancy, does the same apply with contesting the SMP payments? She did try and suggest it would be easier in person but as you say we’re aware this is total bull. A bit like what they told me about the lack of bookings, I’ve no proof of any of that as it was all verbal

Start by putting it all in writing e.g.

Further to our conversation (s) on x ( and x) and ahead of our meeting on Monday I thought it would be helpful to summarise the current position.

I started working for you on (date). On (date) I advised you I was pregnant and on (date) I commenced my Maternity Leave. As per Government guidance (insert link) I am entitled to 39 weeks SMP @ £172.98 a week.
According to my records I have only received x weeks @ £??, I am therefore owed arrears and a further x weeks of SMP.

Note: If you had SMP before 1April it was £156.66 adjust and state x weeks @ £ and y weeks @ £.

On (date) you advised me I was being made redundant because my role ceased to exist due to an unprecedented lack of bookings( insert what she actually said).

As per Government guidance (insert link) I am entitled to my full 39 weeks SMP, full pay for the required notice period, full pay for my untaken leave entitlement (calculated to last day of employment) plus redundancy pay.

You advised me there is a discrepancy in my pay please let me know on Monday exactly what this is so we can resolve this matter.

Question - is it worth pushing for unfair dismissal?

Been up past there tonight and there are new guests in there again. Maybe emotions are getting the better of me. It’s hard with it being right on my doorstep. I feel so sad haha! Finding it so hard that they lied to me. Probably can’t do anything about it. But don’t see how they can get away with being lying two faced ba**ards.

Yes you can push for unfair dismissal but be aware it can be a long and stressful process. They may also claim they do the cleaning themselves.

Talk to ACAS and pregnant then screwed.

Be aware you need to move quite quickly as there are timelines you need to follow.