Gross misconduct dismissal

[whatsthisforGodsake]

I am wondering if there is anyone here who can shed light on how to manage/deal with the impacts (financial & emotional) of gross misconduct dismissal at work pls.

It was a case of working for 2 firms who are competitors & they both found out.

eh? I've often worked for more than one employer and it's never been an issue.

It is very much an issue if employer A is paying you to work Monday to Friday 9-5.30 and you also take on a second job with Employer B that is paying you to work Monday to Friday 9-5.30.

I've worked up to three jobs at the same time, but not literally the same time - cleaning in the morning, afternoon in an office, evening at a leisure centre.

My last job I sometimes had out of hours work and was part of a 24/7 on-call rota. That severely limits the sort of extra work I could have done.

If you're paid for hours rather than completed pieces of work, you can only do one at a time.

I read an article that said that lots of people did this during the pandemic, and were employed for the same hours at each job. One explained how to do it - get people used to the idea that you never pick up the phone when they call, and that they cannot expect immediate answers from you. He was saying once he established that, it was quite easy.

Lots of people where I work have two jobs or our job and a private practice. Nothing wrong with that, if you can show it does not interfere. Its the overlap that is the problem.

at the same time? being paid for the same hours? I doubt you have done that

(flor clarity - company A pays you to work mon-fri 9-5, and so does comapny B that would be an issue)

Presumably because there could be a conflict of interest. The employee could be going after the same customers/clients, bidding for the same contracts, applying for the same funding etc...

In my contract it does say that I have to get permission to go for a second job and that there mustn't be a conflict of interest. Quite a few at my place have worked 2 jobs.

I would think it was hard to avoid employer 1 finding out about the second employer because of tax and payroll.

OP you may get a tax bill, tax on second income is 50%, check and see if you have underpaid, payslips will show Tax codes. Sometimes you can share allowance across two roles (like a nanny doing work for two families on different days) but normally needs to be set up in advance.

OP I assume you have been fired from both jobs at this point, which sounds entirely justified.

You are where you are. You need to look forward now and I would focus on practical things. How can you present this on your CV would be the first hurdle, if you have not yet been fired, I would look to see if you can hand in your notice with immediate effect first.

I agree with this. Also I'd try to look for work in a different field. Industry talks and I think it would be difficult to get a job in a field where trust was broken.

Sometimes avoiding the answer just answers the question.

Almost everything in this post is wring…so please don’t panic. Tax on a second or third or even fourth income isn’t 50%. The highest income tax rate in the UK is 45%, but you won’t pay that until your combined incomes exceed £125k. You can earn up to £50k over as many employers as you like and still only pay 20%. If you include NI, the top rate is 47%. But never 50%. And since the introduction of RTI HMRC will automatically issue tax codes to each employer.

I read an article that said that lots of people did this during the pandemic, and were employed for the same hours at each job. One explained how to do it - get people used to the idea that you never pick up the phone when they call, and that they cannot expect immediate answers from you. He was saying once he established that, it was quite easy.

Yeah I actually kind of feel for the OP. (I know it's corny but give it time OP)

I remember in early 2021 after working my butt of during the pandemic, worked throughout, never got furloughed up until the point I went to then work for a new employer I suddenly found my old employer declared me on furlough, just as the consensus for that year was filled in. Apparently I had two jobs at same time! it was news to me.
The HMRC record was far from a laugh and in a mess for months if not a year where they kept up the declaring I was still an employee.
All the employer had to do was pay back wrongly received furlough money I believe in the end and all was well. I often want to kick myself in wishing I had not left! so as to not lead someone down a path of doing what they did.

OP, there are far worse things you could have done. The only reason I can think though that you would have put yourself through all the stress is due to money worries, so what's going on there?

But please don't beat yourself up - no one has got hurt, the truth has come out and you're taking the punishment of losing the jobs. Just start looking for another job, and hopefully all your earnings will provide a cushion until you can find your next job.

Look for a role which is office based, so there's no question of you WFH and potentially doing anything shady, and then present your appraisal records and what you learnt from this experience. That you were able to be organised enough to keep two employers happy means you are probably an outstanding employee - don't forget that. If you can get anyone you've worked with to give you a personal reference that might help too, and also being honest about why you did it. People have done far worse, so keep it in proportion.

How did they find out - did HMRC contact one of your employers? It sounds like you need to us it as a learning experience, apply for new jobs and not take the risk again.

By “at the same time”, I assumed that the OP was working part-time for both companies so perhaps 16 hours for one and 20 hours for another, but the key issue here is that the companies were competitors, and presumably the poster was contractually prevented from working for both, which makes perfect sense. It would be quite normal, for example, in software or IT where two companies are manufacturing competing products. on the other hand if she was working the same hours and days for both companies simultaneously it that’s a whole other issue, and I agree with those who say she is lucky that dismissal is the only result she is facing. This thread may well go the way of the previous one though where the poster didn’t return to clarify.

An outstanding employee does not work for 2 different employers at rhe same time (probably) committing fraud. Outstanding employees don't get dismissed with gross misconduct.

Definitely is possible unfortunately. We had a psychiatrist in the team I used to work in who would frequently just go missing from our team (where they employed full time) for several hours. It turned out they were taking on additional higher-paid locum jobs at other hospitals whilst still being paid to be in our team 9-5.

I had something similar years ago. Employee organised his own diary and, to be fair, was excellent at his job. But he was using work time to go off and do very highly paid translation work for the police. I had no choice but to dismiss. The stupid thing was that if he had asked, and if he had made up the hours, we'd have approved the second job anyway.