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Original poster

Civil service 60% mandate

343 replies

meagert · 16/11/2023 15:38

What have your managers said to you? Do you think your department/SCS/line manager will be strict on this? Or do you think it'll be like the last time they tried a departmental push where it was a bit ad hoc?!

Possibly too soon to tell, our SCS haven't said very much yet and will "be in touch soon".

OP posts:
Shrim888 · 30/11/2023 19:34

I got a job offer today from ukhsa. I said that the job description said it was wfh and they were shocked and said it was a mistake and that I have to go to the office (which is 4 hours from my house). So I had to turn the offer down. The best part is there is nothing in my job role that requires me to be in... so they're willing to lose candidates over this. I didn't realise it was that bad!

UnremarkableBeasts · 01/12/2023 05:53

Shrim888 · 30/11/2023 19:34

I got a job offer today from ukhsa. I said that the job description said it was wfh and they were shocked and said it was a mistake and that I have to go to the office (which is 4 hours from my house). So I had to turn the offer down. The best part is there is nothing in my job role that requires me to be in... so they're willing to lose candidates over this. I didn't realise it was that bad!

It may be worth making a complaint to UKHSA HR about this. It could well be a breech of the civil service recruitment rules because the job offered is substantially different to what they advertised. They advertised a fully remote role. You wouldn’t have applied if they’d described the role as it actually is.

Not that you’d want the job now but it’s not ok to waste candidate’s time like this.

Tarbert12 · 01/12/2023 06:53

@Motheranddaughter

Have to do it or what? Do you know how hard it is to sack a civil servant? And most bosses don't want to do it themselves.

Tarbert12 · 01/12/2023 06:57

There was no legal right to a weekend before unions compelled employers to allow them @arintingly

Motheranddaughter · 01/12/2023 07:31

Just seems very odd
In he private sector if the management give you a direct order to do something ,then that ‘s what you do

MarieG10 · 01/12/2023 07:53

ToBeOrNotToBee · 16/11/2023 16:44

Not a chance, ours has massively decreased the desk availability, going so far as leasing space to other depts.
Result, there's physically not enough desks for half the organisation.

I did laugh hard when I read the email.

We are similar (not Civil Service though). Mandated 1 day a week and didn't realise we now have no where near enough desks due to growth. I just ignore it for my team or it means working in a canteen?

UnremarkableBeasts · 01/12/2023 07:55

Motheranddaughter · 01/12/2023 07:31

Just seems very odd
In he private sector if the management give you a direct order to do something ,then that ‘s what you do

That’s not true in the way you’re implying.

Loads of people in the private sector do not comply with ‘direct orders’. They find ways round them. They make complaints. They ask questions or suggest alternatives.

It isn’t the case that anything goes in the private sector and that everyone employed in it is just desperately grateful to have a job so they just do as they are told.

Tarbert12 · 01/12/2023 09:05

That's why it's so silly to work in a non-unionised workplace @Motheranddaughter

Your employer wouldn't blink if you got hit by a bus. Prioritise yourself.

Shrim888 · 01/12/2023 11:51

Thanks, I will look into it. As part of the interview I had to do a presentation and so I took time off my job to do it.

Motheranddaughter · 01/12/2023 12:56

I am the employer

Tarbert12 · 01/12/2023 12:58

Well, you sound like a really annoying employer @Motheranddaughter

Some people are just very controlling and it's not for me

SanexExpert · 01/12/2023 13:10

Motheranddaughter · 01/12/2023 07:31

Just seems very odd
In he private sector if the management give you a direct order to do something ,then that ‘s what you do

This isn’t correct. My husband’s firm (private sector) is currently negotiating with the workforce over days in the office. Obviously you can just say “do this” but if employees don’t like it and have other options, they will leave. So sensible employers with highly skilled staff tend to work towards agreement rather than just giving orders about working practices.

Motheranddaughter · 01/12/2023 18:32

We pay over the odds and no problem with staff retention
I am not saying I don’t negotiate with staff,it was more the people who seemed to be saying they would jjust ignore it
Anyway always interesting to have an insight into the public sector,just finished work and off for a cocktail or 2

User65412 · 01/12/2023 21:56

@GarlandaChynoweth no, they mentioned meetings with managers and HR I think? I feel in limbo. I've been looking for jobs but nothing and I've been in the cs such a short time I'm worried it'll look bad.

rockstarshoes · 02/12/2023 08:22

Motheranddaughter · 01/12/2023 07:31

Just seems very odd
In he private sector if the management give you a direct order to do something ,then that ‘s what you do

The thing is it isn't 'management' that have mandated the 60% it's the Govt.

The management in my place of work are as disappointed with it as the rest of us are because it's arbitrary, doesn't take into account modern ways of working or recent recruitment trends.

It's against a backdrop of 12 years of austerity, poor pay deals compared to other public sector employees.

Lots of Civil Servants have only survived the cost of living crisis because they don't have to commute in everyday.

The Govt talks about a 'Brilliant' 'Modern' Civil Service then takes us back 10 years and the only reason for 'why" seems to be because Jacob Reece Mogg says so.

CSWife · 03/12/2023 20:47

DH's manager has asked him if he's had any thoughts on how he'll meet the 60%. They are both in similar positions, both work long days when in London, roughly hitting 60% of time (varies slight week to week) but only in 50% of days.

I think they are hoping it will be left to managers' discretion to calculate and audit and plan to keep their heads down!

Zone4flaneur · 04/12/2023 06:23

@rockstarshoes exactly- that point has been made very strongly in consultations in my dept- most people don't object too much in principle to coming in a bit more but lots now just can't afford it. No pay rises for a very long time. Lots of people are also struggling to find after school childcare (for older kids it's not a problem to have them watch TV at home, but they do need to be picked up). Perfect storm of COL crisis and childcare crisis.

CSWife · 04/12/2023 09:32

After school childcare is a massive problem where we live. Lots of childminders went out of business during Covid, and have realised they can earn more, for fewer hours and dealing with less crap (literally and metaphorically!) doing almost anything else.

At the same time, WFH has actually increased demand for wraparound care because people can squidge their work into the wraparound hours whereas previously those doing very long hours in The City with a commute on top would have had to pay for a nanny.

CSWife · 04/12/2023 09:37

(Sorry, not trying to derail the thread onto a different topic, but building on the pp that 60% just won't be manageable and people will have to change jobs if it is enforced),

Decisionfatiguequeen · 04/12/2023 11:15

For me its just so disappointing and a huge backwards step that will disproportionately affect women and their families. Pre pandemic I was only a few hours a week, the ability to work from home and use my time to work instead of a pointless commute meant I have thrived in the workplace for the first time since having children. I have increased my hours to 30, and been promoted and been selected for a future leaders development programme. I've worked harder than ever before yet have been at home to collect my children and be there when they need me most. I'm not compromising on that by sticking them in after school club until all hours just to tick a stupid box to satisfy Daily Mail readers. I'll have no choice but to reduce my hours and accept the detrimental impact on my pension. I am absolutely devastated I will go from thriving in my career and making a real difference, back to just getting by. Its an absolutely shameful decision by this Government for women in the civil service, (no doubt made by men who have never had to be the default parent.)

User65412 · 04/12/2023 12:36

@Decisionfatiguequeen well said. I have message 'pregnant then screwed' about it so they can share and highlight the unfairness of it.
I want to make a successful career in the cs and feel like all possibility and opportunity for that has been taken away from me.

user2382349 · 04/12/2023 13:21

Decisionfatiguequeen · 04/12/2023 11:15

For me its just so disappointing and a huge backwards step that will disproportionately affect women and their families. Pre pandemic I was only a few hours a week, the ability to work from home and use my time to work instead of a pointless commute meant I have thrived in the workplace for the first time since having children. I have increased my hours to 30, and been promoted and been selected for a future leaders development programme. I've worked harder than ever before yet have been at home to collect my children and be there when they need me most. I'm not compromising on that by sticking them in after school club until all hours just to tick a stupid box to satisfy Daily Mail readers. I'll have no choice but to reduce my hours and accept the detrimental impact on my pension. I am absolutely devastated I will go from thriving in my career and making a real difference, back to just getting by. Its an absolutely shameful decision by this Government for women in the civil service, (no doubt made by men who have never had to be the default parent.)

Same here, I was contemplating on the day before the mandate that I'd be able to up my hours in a couple of years, I won't now as it will be much harder to manage. It's making it harder for women to return to their careers after children.

Newpeep · 04/12/2023 13:35

Decisionfatiguequeen · 04/12/2023 11:15

For me its just so disappointing and a huge backwards step that will disproportionately affect women and their families. Pre pandemic I was only a few hours a week, the ability to work from home and use my time to work instead of a pointless commute meant I have thrived in the workplace for the first time since having children. I have increased my hours to 30, and been promoted and been selected for a future leaders development programme. I've worked harder than ever before yet have been at home to collect my children and be there when they need me most. I'm not compromising on that by sticking them in after school club until all hours just to tick a stupid box to satisfy Daily Mail readers. I'll have no choice but to reduce my hours and accept the detrimental impact on my pension. I am absolutely devastated I will go from thriving in my career and making a real difference, back to just getting by. Its an absolutely shameful decision by this Government for women in the civil service, (no doubt made by men who have never had to be the default parent.)

Absolutely this. It hits women, either who work in the CS or those partnered to people who are.

Fair enough if there was a mandate when you took the job but over the last few years they have been actively trying to reduce estate and therefore office time. A lot of people came in on that agreement.

The whole thing is very strange and smells of dead cat and appeasement of the right wing press.

IdleAnimations · 07/12/2023 01:32

In relation to women in the CS - About to go on maternity leave with my first baby for a year and I was hired remotely years ago by the CS due to the specialism being hard to recruit. Been promoted twice but now this attendance thing means I’ll unfortunately be looking to quit as I can’t fit in a 3hr commute each way with childcare for presenteeism only.

Dreading it but that’s where I am as the wage was already rubbish but the flexi working meant I felt comfortable having kids. Guess I was wrong and I’ll be yet another woman leaving the workplace thanks to the motherhood penalty.

For all their guff on diversity in the CS, it’s just that - guff.

MarieG10 · 07/12/2023 05:38

IdleAnimations · 07/12/2023 01:32

In relation to women in the CS - About to go on maternity leave with my first baby for a year and I was hired remotely years ago by the CS due to the specialism being hard to recruit. Been promoted twice but now this attendance thing means I’ll unfortunately be looking to quit as I can’t fit in a 3hr commute each way with childcare for presenteeism only.

Dreading it but that’s where I am as the wage was already rubbish but the flexi working meant I felt comfortable having kids. Guess I was wrong and I’ll be yet another woman leaving the workplace thanks to the motherhood penalty.

For all their guff on diversity in the CS, it’s just that - guff.

If you were hired "remotely".not sure what that means? Do you mean recruited on the basis of remote working, and if so then you should have a contract to state that?

This won't be just affecting women, it affects all and yes some people will have to leave. It will affect ability to recruit but also remote working can also hide wider issues. I had one applicant for a job who lived less than one mile from our office and demanded an online interview and clearly was going to be submitting the remote working request if successful. When I declined the remote interview they declined it.

For the NHS (I'm a newcomer) without some degree of remote working in suitable roles it is in some disciplines impossible to recruit, but also to physically accommodate staff on site