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Civil service questions

45 replies

halloweenn · 05/11/2023 09:07

Any other civil servants who could shed light on travel policy please? My department paid for my train tickets and hotels over span of 3 days. I was hit by train delays of over an hour on each journey. I ended up reaching the hotels and home between 9-10pm each night.

-Can I claim the train delay repay compensation?

-Do I claim the hours spent travelling outside of working hours as flexi credits, or does it fall under overtime?

-no public transport running so took taxi from the train station to the hotel. Can this be reimbursed? (Though as a lone woman travelling in a new area, with luggage, low battery, late at night, I’m happy to pay the Uber fee out of my own pocket)

OP posts:
daisychain01 · 05/11/2023 10:15

no public transport running so took taxi from the train station to the hotel. Can this be reimbursed? (Though as a lone woman travelling in a new area, with luggage, low battery, late at night, I’m happy to pay the Uber fee out of my own pocket)

any travel late at night where a taxi can be reasonably justified on the basis of safety is permissible under the travel policy of my Govt dept. It needs to be done on the basis of common sense, I.e. you need to be able to justify that there was no economic and safe alternative. I would check your justification is valid by discussing with your line manager first before submitting your claim.

re the travel delay compensation, are you saying that you believe you should be personally entitled to receive the compensation? Normally it's the individual being compensated for inconvenience from the delay. The waters get muddied because you aren't paying, your employer is. The way I understand the travel policy, it states that you the claimant should neither be out of pocket or in profit. So Id advise you to check with your LM that you aren't breaching that regulation. If it was me, I wouldn't bother, due to the hassle and the need for justification all for the princely sum of £20 or however much you get.

Do I claim the hours spent travelling outside of working hours as flexi credits, or does it fall under overtime?

Id personally book it as flexi credits, because overtime requires LM approval in advance. If you didn't seek that approval in advance, then flexi is easier to process as you're simply taking those hours as leave at a different time, just as you'd normally take flexi.

When I'm due to incur travel expenses my personal rule is that I always check with my delivery manager first - I send an estimated breakdown of costs, even though I don't have to, I do it anyway, because it shows positive intent, transparency etc, that has served me well over the years. The information is there if needed, and can be ignored if not needed.

halloweenn · 05/11/2023 10:27

Thank you. The thing is a lot of these issues are unanticipated so I didn’t clear with LM beforehand. I got permission to book more flexible tickets/hotels in case of disruption as the event had been cancelled the week prior. So I had the green light to book and to cancel if needed, but we didn’t really have a discussion about travelling and facing disruption en route!

OP posts:
youveturnedupwelldone · 05/11/2023 11:51

It depends on your department's travel policies, it isn't consistent across the whole CS.

At mine:

Any delay repay has to be returned to the department, you can't keep it yourself (and it's a disciplinary if you do). We claim it through our travel portal.

I'd be able to have the extra hours back.

I'd be able to claim the taxi back.

halloweenn · 05/11/2023 12:02

That’s interesting with the delay repay! I wonder if we work at same department or not, my initial instinct is the money is compensation for the inconvenience of travel issues vs a refund of the ticket

OP posts:
MiddleParking · 06/11/2023 06:44

youveturnedupwelldone · 05/11/2023 11:51

It depends on your department's travel policies, it isn't consistent across the whole CS.

At mine:

Any delay repay has to be returned to the department, you can't keep it yourself (and it's a disciplinary if you do). We claim it through our travel portal.

I'd be able to have the extra hours back.

I'd be able to claim the taxi back.

That’s absolutely ridiculous. First of all it’s compensation for the traveller, and second of all how would they ever know if you’d claimed it yourself or not?!

MiddleSaged · 06/11/2023 06:54

Re claiming travel delay compensation: if you are claiming back the additional time caused by the delay as part of the travel time owed to you, then you shouldn’t also claim from the rail company as you’d essentially be benefiting twice from suffering one inconvenience.

HappyAsASandboy · 06/11/2023 07:36

I agree with the first response you got.

Another way to look at the delay repay issue is that you're claiming those hours as flexi, therefore you consider yourself to have been "working" for those hours. So you weren't personally inconvenienced, your employer was, because they have to pay you those hours back because of the delay.

The travel team might be able to advise how to claim the delay repay on behalf of the department. I wouldn't claim it personally - it is the sort of small thing people lose their jobs over if someone wants you out!

youveturnedupwelldone · 06/11/2023 08:53

I've worked in a few govt departments and none of the previous ones required the delay repay had to be claimed on behalf of them, this one does. If we do claim ourselves and are found out it's treated as corporate fraud as per the policy 🤷🏽‍♀️ just check your dept's policy and see what it says rather than deciding how you think it should be. As another poster said it's the kind of small ridiculous thing people lose their jobs over.

SoddingWeddings · 06/11/2023 08:58

Delay repay goes to the purchaser of the ticket, not you so no you can't claim that. It would be considered betterment by the CS and you'd be hauled up on disciplinary in my dept.

The taxi would absolutely be claimable.

The time would depend on whether your dept pay overtime or not. In my dept it would be granted as flexi only, but we have no paid overtime except in extreme circumstances and preauthorised.

MiddleParking · 06/11/2023 10:26

SoddingWeddings · 06/11/2023 08:58

Delay repay goes to the purchaser of the ticket, not you so no you can't claim that. It would be considered betterment by the CS and you'd be hauled up on disciplinary in my dept.

The taxi would absolutely be claimable.

The time would depend on whether your dept pay overtime or not. In my dept it would be granted as flexi only, but we have no paid overtime except in extreme circumstances and preauthorised.

How do they reckon they’re monitoring that?

SoddingWeddings · 06/11/2023 13:16

Which part @MiddleParking@MiddleParking? If you have a ticket issued via Redfern (the usual government booking company) the refund goes back to the original method of payment. So you can't claim it yourself. If you've bought the ticket and reclaim the cost on expenses then of course you could claim but if you get caught out it'll be fraud and your job if your dept doesn't allow it.

MiddleParking · 06/11/2023 13:57

SoddingWeddings · 06/11/2023 13:16

Which part @MiddleParking@MiddleParking? If you have a ticket issued via Redfern (the usual government booking company) the refund goes back to the original method of payment. So you can't claim it yourself. If you've bought the ticket and reclaim the cost on expenses then of course you could claim but if you get caught out it'll be fraud and your job if your dept doesn't allow it.

That isn’t my experience of how any of it works at all (obviously I’m also a civil servant, I’ve never worked for a department that uses Redfern but I imagine all these systems are similar). First of all the repayment isn’t automatic, you have to apply for it yourself, and then in my experience the ticket holder has to specify what account it goes to, rather than being refunded to the original method of payment - presumably for situations like this. My department is very clear that it’s compensation for the traveller who’s endured the delay. Why would you bother doing the work of claiming compensation to go back to your departmental travel budget? And how would they ever keep track of who’d been on a delayed train? On some routes a 15 minute delay is a good day. They absolutely would not be able to accuse you of fraud anyway without being turned over, in the unlikely event they were daft enough to try.

SoddingWeddings · 06/11/2023 17:18

Redfern AKA Trips etc - all the front page booking systems come back to the same contract for Government.

The fraud would come if your department stated you couldn't claim delay repay and keep the money, so the OP needs to check their local rules. Both this and my last department have that in place.

halloweenn · 06/11/2023 18:25

The thing is, delay repay compensation isn’t a refund - a refund should go back to original method of payment, but compensation could be sent to the passenger. I didn’t check guidance today but I’ll do so tomorrow

I don’t think I’ll bother claiming the hours back as flexi, cause tbh as a SEO I think there’s the expectation to start early/finish late so I never get the time to take flexi! I’ve already built up a stash of hours I can’t take due to busy period

OP posts:
Jbck · 06/11/2023 18:49

What MiddleSaged said ime. You provide your bank details for claim as I recall.
Taxi claim would be fine.

halloweenn · 06/11/2023 18:53

So I just logged in to check guidance and…

we can claim for delay repay and are encouraged to…but the vouchers need to be sent back to the department

OP posts:
MiddleParking · 06/11/2023 19:49

halloweenn · 06/11/2023 18:53

So I just logged in to check guidance and…

we can claim for delay repay and are encouraged to…but the vouchers need to be sent back to the department

What vouchers?! I’ve only ever had delay repay as a bank transfer. This thread feels like a parallel universe 😂

youveturnedupwelldone · 06/11/2023 20:33

Nah, just the civil service 😂

daisychain01 · 06/11/2023 20:41

MiddleParking · 06/11/2023 06:44

That’s absolutely ridiculous. First of all it’s compensation for the traveller, and second of all how would they ever know if you’d claimed it yourself or not?!

Claiming the money back but not declaring that, just isn't something I'd do. If for whatever reason it was ever discovered that you'd claimed the compensation it just comes across as dishonest. It isn't ridiculous when you consider the CS Code of Conduct instils an ethos of honesty and transparency - it's part of the culture and not least of all the absolutely shit Civil Servants get from the general public aka "The Daily Mail Headline" for the most minor indiscretion post-Duckhouse Gate.

MiddleParking · 06/11/2023 21:44

daisychain01 · 06/11/2023 20:41

Claiming the money back but not declaring that, just isn't something I'd do. If for whatever reason it was ever discovered that you'd claimed the compensation it just comes across as dishonest. It isn't ridiculous when you consider the CS Code of Conduct instils an ethos of honesty and transparency - it's part of the culture and not least of all the absolutely shit Civil Servants get from the general public aka "The Daily Mail Headline" for the most minor indiscretion post-Duckhouse Gate.

I know what the civil service code is and how to follow it, I’m a career civil servant. I just disagree with you that what’s described constitutes dishonesty. I also get the sense you believe particular functions to exist or to operate in a way that they don’t and couldn’t. It’s in no one’s interest for a department to implement a disciplinary policy which presents a risk of legal challenge and which would cost significantly more to monitor and enforce than it could ever save, even if there was a mechanism to monitor it, which there is not.

SuperheroBirds · 06/11/2023 22:02

MiddleSaged · 06/11/2023 06:54

Re claiming travel delay compensation: if you are claiming back the additional time caused by the delay as part of the travel time owed to you, then you shouldn’t also claim from the rail company as you’d essentially be benefiting twice from suffering one inconvenience.

This is the case in my department. If you don’t claim the extra time back, you can keep the delay repay money. If you want the time, you can’t keep the money.

BigFatLiar · 06/11/2023 22:09

OH would have claimed the time as travel time which was paid at basic rate rather than overtime. Travel time didn't need authorisation as it was a consequence of the travel rather than overtime which required authorisation.

CherryMyBrandy · 06/11/2023 22:15

youveturnedupwelldone · 05/11/2023 11:51

It depends on your department's travel policies, it isn't consistent across the whole CS.

At mine:

Any delay repay has to be returned to the department, you can't keep it yourself (and it's a disciplinary if you do). We claim it through our travel portal.

I'd be able to have the extra hours back.

I'd be able to claim the taxi back.

That's disgusting. The compensation is for the passenger's inconvenience not for the person/company/organisation who bought the ticket but didn't even travel! My DH, for example, uses it to pay for extra coffees or food if he's delayed on his commute. Or it's just money to compensate you for the stress and exhaustion of an extra long and unexpected journey. How dare they take it off you and say they will discipline you for claiming it!

CherryMyBrandy · 06/11/2023 22:21

SuperheroBirds · 06/11/2023 22:02

This is the case in my department. If you don’t claim the extra time back, you can keep the delay repay money. If you want the time, you can’t keep the money.

I don't think that's on either. You should get both. The compensation is for the inconvenience of the extra long journey, sometimes of multiple modes of transport, and often getting home very late at night, perhaps added costs (food, coffees etc as mentioned before). Claiming the time back isn't adequate compensation for having to work until say 11pm at night unexpectedly, which is sometimes when my DH gets in due to train delays. We've also had situations where I've had to do a gone midnight run to collect him in treacherous conditions to the nearest station he managed to get to. Time back wouldn't cover that! Delayed trains cause all sorts of knock on issues.

Zanatdy · 07/11/2023 06:40

It will depends on your company policy. Re taxi my boss would have no issue authorising that and neither would I for my staff. I wouldn’t bother with delay repay. It would be flexi for me not overtime, and I’d say the same for my staff. When travelling I add to my flexi sheet my start start minus the travel to my normal station, so if I started travelling at 8am I’d put 8.30 as normally takes me 30 mins to get to work, same for finish time - if I got to the hotel at 9pm I’d put 8.30pm as my finish time. Again different depts have different rules so check with your manager