WWYD - colleague's hours and possible corporate fraud

[AuntieRuth]

I've recently discovered that a colleague at work has only been working about 4.5 hours a day out of a contracted 7, and that this has been going on for years.

We have a flexileave policy, where we log our hours and if we work extra we can carry up to two days’ worth to take back when we need it e.g. if we need a shorter day for something. We are supposed to log the hours we work on a Google spreadsheet that we submit weekly. However, none of our line managers have ever checked them so people stopped submitting them.

The colleague confided in me the other day that she's still been dutifully logging her hours, but that she's not been working her full contracted hours for years. Apparently she's several hundred hours in deficit. Nobody is aware of this, certainly not our manager.

She's told me that she's covering childcare as she can't afford full time nursery for her pre-school and primary-aged children, and that her partner is only working part time and trying to set up their own business. For background, we're both in public sector jobs paying well above the national average.

She's got away with it for so long as she relocated during the pandemic and is now several counties away from our office. We're all expected to be in the office three times a week, but this isn't being enforced for my colleague who is allowed to WFH all the time and nobody has ever said anything. I know that she didn't ask for permission to relocate at the time, she just did it and assumed it would be ok. It means that nobody is noticing her drop in hours, other than that she just doesn't reply to chat messages.

What would you do in this situation? As far as I'm aware I'm the only person that knows, so if I raise this it will be obvious it came from me. We've both worked here a very long time and I don't want to damage my working relationships with other colleagues who may resent me making a complaint. Also, we currently only have an interim line manager and are being restructured, so I don't have anyone obvious above me to raise it with.

However, we're being paid by the tax payer and she's not fulfilling her contract. Is this corporate fraud?

I know many people will tell me it's not my business and to keep out of it, but it's galling that I'm working hard around family life, with early starts and late finishes to get my work and hours done, and am also having to pay out for childcare and regular travel to the office. In addition, the fact she's not working her hours impacts on my ability to my job. Whenever project issues are raised, there's this elephant in the room that if she was actually doing her hours she might have time to do all the things that are holding us up.

WWYD? Should I go to HR even though it will be obvious it was me, or do I just try to ignore it, even though I massively resent it for many reasons?

The figure comes from the annual fraud landscape report by PSFA. I think they have their methodology in the document? Im sure it will come in for some challenge at the next select committee in any case!

Knowing about this and failing to report it could actually lead to trouble for you too.

It's really hard and she's put this on you now. But you should report this.

Easier said than done though.

Thanks.

I am going to have a read!

@Sunnyshoeshine

Cases are thereby reported as fraud where the department judges it more likely than not to have occurred. Cases do not need to be proven to a criminal standard (i.e. beyond reasonable doubt) to be reported as fraud.

interesting

Makes for very depressing read and MUCH worse than 33bn

The Government Counter Fraud Function estimates that, in 2020, the level of fraud and error was between £33.2bn-£58.8bn outside of COVID-19 specific schemes.

Whilst this is an admirable stance to take, about £7bn was lost to the taxpayer because of fraud over the course of Covid because of schemes directly introduced by the government. That's all been written off as too expensive to try and recover. That's before mentioning the nonsense with contracts for cronies. So while you're morally absolutely right, a just universe this isn't and I wouldn't be landing a normal person juggling childcare in it. If she's not doing her job properly either it'll be noticed or it won't and those who should be monitoring her will be noticed. It sounds like your managers are as at fault as anyone if this has literally been going on for years.

However, she's always been very good at giving the impression to management that it's not her that's the problem, but that exisiting processes (which she is responsible for) can't be changed.

That sounds like she's also potentially setting up others to take the blame?

@YokoOnosBigHat

* I wouldn't be landing a normal person juggling childcare in it. *
I am curious. If this personal confided in you that they were falsely claiming you’re they weren’t doing, and you said to them In response “ok that’s bad, rarely dishonest, please will you consider stopping this. Now”

and they said “no chance!!! 😂 “

what would you do?

Have you done your fraud and corruption training? (Might be bribery and corruption?)

If it's anything like it used to be (and when I worked in a public sector job it was mandatory) you have a professional obligation to report fraud as soon as you become aware of it. In fact, flexi fraud was one of the examples I think. Failure to do so and you risk being complicit in it too. The training details what to do.

What boggles me is why on earth tell you.
I mean if it isn't bad enough she's defrauding the company and taking money she isn't entitled to, she has now made it your problem.
Whistleblower line if such a thing exists.

Excuse me if I've missed this, but is she submitting the hours she's supposed to work, or the hours she's actually working and no one has picked up on it?

I think it makes a difference.

I’d probably start with “now you’ve told me you need to stop. Projects are behind because of you. I’m working hard to keep things going here and you’re slacking off”. See what she says. Tell her it’s untenable.

There's a poem about a couple who waited until they could afford it. 'It' being, getting married, having children, etc. This may be your choice and an ideal one, but it doesn't work for everyone.

I don’t understand why people do things like this AND tell their colleagues. Your colleagues are not your friends! Why would you even mention this to someone you work with

She has put you in an impossible situation. If you report she will know it's you. If they find out another way she might say we'll so and so knew but did nothing. I once worked with someone who was falsifying the amount of overtime they were doing. She then said we were all doing it. I had undercharged as I always rounded up breaks but it made me realise cornered people will say anything to get out of it. In summary you need to tell someone. Preferably anonymously. Do you know any seniors you get on with who you could trust?

If she is recording what she actually works in a place managers can see it, I wouldn't say anything. She is creating a record of how much she owes them.

If she's reporting fraudulently, I would report.

Apologies @Clearspring1 - I don't understand the question.

She isn't "trying to save money". She is committing fraud by taking a wage to which she is not entitled.

I have been in this situation as a manager. It didn't take anyone pointing it out to me, not years to suss it. That person is an ex- employee.

It's disturbing just how many people think theft is ok...

Sorry it's taken so long for me to come back. Ironically I've been working and then pickup from childcare!

Thank you to everyone for a varied set of replies. It's given me a lot to think about in terms of how to proceed.

Just to clarify, we all have our own spreadsheets that we use to record our hours on, but these are all saved in our individual areas. She's been recording her actual hours worked, so that aspect isn't fraudulent. It's how she knows how far in arrears she is. However she doesn't then share the spreadsheet with our line manager, so the line manager doesn't know.

To be honest, I have no idea why she decided to confide in me after so long, nor why she's honestly recording her actual hours worked. Perhaps in her mind she'd always intended to make them back up, but it's got to a point where that's almost impossible.

I completely get where you are coming from and yes it's not fair on the team.

But personally I would be giving her the opportunity to change it and draw a line in the sand before reporting it.
If she doesn't change it and do her contracted hours then I would report it. Partly because there is a real risk that flexible working gets removed from everyone as a result.

I have flexible working policy some days I do shorter hours during the 9-5 days but I then log on when my children are in bed and complete my hours we don't have core hours so it's allowable. That could be a option for her.

So if she’s logging the hours honestly, it could be argued that she’s not defrauding anyone as it would be her supervisors responsibility to check. However if she is submitting her form knowing that they don’t get checked, I would still say that the element of dishonesty is there as she is knowingly claiming full pay repeatedly.

Look, blow the whistle. Loudly. She lives several counties away, you’re not going to be bumping into her and she’s been taking the piss out of everyone working hard full time and especially those trying to also juggle their true hours with work.

It's fraud and it's everyone's business. Actually what you usually find in these situations is that no one else is ok with it regardless of the reason. Think about it - she's working about 60% of her hours for 100% salary.

Yes there is a management failure here, but that doesn't excuse her wrongdoing. It's like saying the manager left £100 in cash out, a staff member stole it but it's the managers fault for leaving the cash out.

Your organisation should have a whistleblowing policy and/or some sort of "speaking up safely" arrangement, use that and report it. Don't try and sort it with her yourself, don't tell her you're reporting it, don't engage with her further - this could lead you to being in trouble if she gets found out another way. "X new about it and said it was fine..." It will only take one new diligent manager to turn this up in a moment won't it.

She's obviously got a bit over confident if she's openly telling you about it. As a civil servant I find this sort of behaviour abhorrent, it's exactly the sort of thing that gets public sector workers labelled en mass as work shy pisstakers when the reality is the vast majority of us are working our bums off to get the job done in difficult circumstances

Great post with spot on advice

Wait - if she's logging her hours accurately, what's the issue? That she's in arrears but management don't know? Is the only way they know what hours their staff are working is if the staff literally tell them? No hours get checked and verified before people are paid?

This goes on alot.
Can you report it anonymously ?
It's fraud straight and simple and your organisation is failing in its responsibility to audit staffs hours.

OP after reading your update I understand much better. So they have been paid their standard hours but with the option of working flexi (pretty much left to your own planning to make sure your hours are worked and recorded.)
Your colleague has been honest in their recorded hours but has fallen massively behind.
Id encourage them to come forward and speak to their line manager about it. Whilst they shouldn’t have gotten to this point they might be able to take the hours unpaid to get the back to zero.
Now I would say it’s on the line manager who should’ve been checking and should know how much flexi your colleague has.
I don’t believe this is fraud, the line manager should be helping them to get back to zero.