Am I overreacting? Can't decide

[Overreacting]

I was asked into a meeting a few weeks ago with the manager a couple of layers above me, and his PA. He tends to talk before he listens but is generally okay.

He had the wrong end of the stick about a project I was working on and I did my default thing of listening while he talked himself out a bit. That was probably a mistake but he does monologue and doesn't like interruption.

So we got about 15 minutes in. I'd had a couple of minutes to explain my position. At that stage he said, he didn't understand why I hadn't accepted his position without dispute, he was too busy for discussion, but possibly the fact that I didn't just accept that and move on was down to cultural differences. (Paraphrasing as best I can but the key phrase there for me is cultural differences).

I wound the meeting down after that but I am still a month later flummoxed by that comment. He's a middle-aged white man. I'm a middle-aged white woman. We are in the UK. He's British. I'm Irish.

He has a fairly top down management style and it's by no means all peace and harmony here. So the disagreement, though annoying, isn't unusual. Meeting was absolutely polite and calm.

I need to go into other meetings with him, with the people I manage, and I just don't know how to address or get past this. I have no idea what degree of (dissent? comment? request for clarification?) might trigger this kind of comment again and I don't want it happening in front of people I manage. He's quite a loose cannon so it could.

I'm not thirsting for blood or anything. I had an informal chat with HR who are helpful but recommend not going back to him on this (and I think must think I'm overreacting). Am I? And what if anything would anyone else do about this? Nobody I can tell in real life and I am feeling very alone with it so maybe getting out of proportion. Or underreacting! Would be glad of people's thoughts.

That's an interesting take - so you think cultural differences means he wants more communication and doesn't want people to listen to his monologues? I kind of feel it's on him not to monologue then. I don't think interrupting him would have gone down well at all.

It's not usually my job to communicate with him at all. There's a layer between us.

But sure, if there's a communication problem that is the kind of issue I could get my teeth into and work on. I don't really believe that's what he meant but I will think about it and try to work on it

Actually that baffles me too - he's neither on charge of the project not my line manager. A lot of my unease is around that too. Thanks for your comments and questions.

Sorry - didn't quote and can't see how to edit

I would say so, because I didn't know what response to make on that point. If any! And if the point was no response needed, that really wasn't much help to a meeting.

And actually, being told that you are not behaving as expected due to cultural differences does undermine your confidence, in the immediate interaction and in reflecting on it afterwards. So it did make the meeting less productive, yes.

I think you have misunderstood OP

you’re assuming by cultural differences he means age/gender/country of origin. I think a male in the position you describe wouldn’t outright say that cause it could land them in hot water re discrimination

I think by cultural differences he means difference in work culture and expectations. Eg your business as usual looks different to his business as usual. He takes X approach, you take Y approach so what can be implemented for joined up working?

Search online - work culture is a term widely used:

https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/what-is-workplace-culture

i think if you complained about him, he would have a clear cut explanation that he meant work culture not differences in protected characteristics

Can you ask his PA informally for his/her take on this? (You said to the PA was in the meeting?)

I am absolutely open to that interpretation (and I haven't complained about him).

But where do I go from here? It's not as if he explained what he meant or suggested any action or points to work on. If there's an issue with work cultures I'd like to know about that too! Do you mind if I ask how you'd approach a conversation about this without seeming to accuse him of anything else?

That might not be a bad idea, thanks. I feel lots of people walk on eggshells around him and I'm starting to do that myself. Not sure how she would take that but I will think about it.

I’d approach it with your line manager first and get their input. It might not be something that needs to be raised with him at this stage, but there might be things your team can do to adapt. He sounds like a pain, but I work with different stakeholders and they’re all pains in their own way - it’s up to me and my team to be more responsive and less reactive. I know you might not want to post here what was discussed with him, but have a think about the salient points he mentioned. What can you do to stop a misunderstanding from happening in the future? What were the key events here?

You're over thinking this now. It was very likely a throw away remark from a man who speaks too much, and doesn't think about what he is saying beyond how it is useful to him in the moment. He probably won't even recall having said it. And his PA may not recall it either. I would really strongly consider leaving it alone and making a mental note that if he calls you for a meeting in the future, he will drop bombs like this and isn't to be trusted.

For example I’m a senior manager, another senior manager across department approached me to complain about how long my team were taking to supply something and that lateness is now impacting their work.

I checked with my team - they weren’t late and were trying to proactively provide the work, within the initially agreed timescales. They sent the stakeholder Teams messages and supplied daily updates on minor things that no one else on the team was aware of so we couldn’t follow up in their absence.

So my feedback to my team was don’t send teams messages, route communication through the inbox to prevent these senior managers from being overly reliant on you and to stop them expecting instant responses and having that unrealistic expectation

I think even if they recall it, they're not going to admit to it, are they? So agree with you nothing I can do there.

Honestly, something that straightforward I could deal with in a heartbeat - do it all the time.

Here I don't know if I'm dealing with a personality issue - okay, I can change if so. Ethnicity - I can lie low in certain interactions, if so. Work culture - sure but I don't have anything like the level of information you have. And I can't get it without asking questions, which is apparently the cultural problem at hand.

My line manager won't help because they can't communicate with this person either - say he doesn't listen to them.

I'm fairly relaxed (and serious) about getting my head down and getting on with my job. I've done it for years and done okay. I think looking back over this thread that communications issues between my line manager and this manager are playing into this. Not much I can do there but it's been a help to hear from everyone here - thank you.

@Overreacting

"Cultural differences" I would take as a racist remark and he had no right to say it.

Thanks @ginasevern

I just don't know.

Part of me thinks, of course nobody would say that and mean it in a discriminatory way. I'm white. I'm privileged. I haven't had to deal with what earlier generations of Irish emigrants have had to deal with, never mind racism based on skin colour. I've no right to play victim.

Part of me thinks, but how can you be sure? Speak up and ask for reassurance, or if you're not brave enough to do that, get out while you can, because he's told you what you're dealing with

I think other interpretations are more likely, but asking for reassurance seems really risky in terms of being seen to overreact, make a fuss, make false accusations

And meanwhile I have to somehow work out what he did mean, since I need to work on it, but without asking questions.

I am not a good manager in all ways and this is really making me think about how careless words can affect people. I'm sure I've misspoken in the past. But people know where to find me. They know they can ask questions. I'll explain and I'll listen.

It's probably just characteric of a certain character type, but I think either throw around potentially alarming comments and be prepared to talk about that, or shut the conversation down but do it professionally.

All this may have meant nothing from his side and people certainly go through a lot worse every day, but it has shaken me.

Thanks for your reply anyway.

It's strange he had his PA in the meeting. I would definitely ask her take on it. I'm a PA, part of my role is mediating any confusion between my boss and the wider team. If she's a decent PA she can help you out in a diplomatic way.

I would NOT ask his PA for her take on it. Unprofessional and unfair

In any event - I think fact the meeting was as month ago means very reasonable to suppose neither he nor his PA have any recollection that this was even said

Op - what’s the demographic of the company? Almost exclusively male and English?

Have you ever been a PA? It's very common for a team at all levels to run things by a senior PA for their view or advice. And as this PA was in the meeting, she is presumably senior (unless she was taking minutes).

If the PA feels that he said something dodgy she can plead forgetfulness or just say she didn't know what he meant. Or she might have a completely clear take on his meaning that would put the OP's mind at rest.

This is his PA

Puts her in a difficult position

Yes I know it's his PA. You're not going to understand what I'm saying, never mind.

At higher levels, yes. At lower levels as many or maybe more women than men.

I think she gets a lot of polite enquiries along those lines tbh. So it would probably be safe to ask her, tactfully and with no pressure.

But really what I am getting from this thread - and thanks for all the contributions - is that I don't know how much energy I want to spend second-guessing and placating someone like this, especially with the line management structure frayed.

I'm not going to open an enquiry or raise a grievance. It's too vague and too much time has passed, as people say. I'll just keep an eye out for opportunities to work with more reliably professional people.

But as evidenced on this thread - his statement can be interpreted as either offensive or not at all offensive.

And the only person who knows the meaning behind his statement, is the person who said it

Asking his PA about her interpretation on a comment not even directed to her from a meeting a month ago - would be unprofessional and…. Odd