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Should I lob in a grenade on the way out?

112 replies

MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 08:26

Hello wise people. I have been unceremoniously sacked from my job. Not performance related, just the company using IR35 to get rid of people after 2 years. I did not know this was a thing when I joined. My colleague/ manager is very lazy, does not contribute to the team effort, and spends his whole time hobnobbing with senior management and external clients whilst Ithe rest of us do all the grafting (we are equally well qualified btw). I really want to let senior management know what he's like, mainly because he lied to my face when my role was ending and got someone else to do it, he does not do his day job and is taking the company for an expensive ride. He does have form for getting people sacked or pulled up for 'bullying' for complaining about him, but I'm leaving the business anyway. Who thinks I should have a meeting with senior managers, send a goodbye letter to the team hinting about the injustice, and to watch their backs (i know I'm feeling angry/bitter) or should I just walk away? Please don't say just walk away 😆

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MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:00

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Because clearly I'm stupid!

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MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:02

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That the so called assistant was said to be on a different project but was actually my replacement and EVERYONE lied about it.

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SylvieLaufeydottir · 11/10/2023 17:03

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 11/10/2023 16:47

Agreed with a lot of @MrsDanversGlidesAgain, but when I’ve temped in the past few years it’s not been to sort out a specific issue, it’s just been to fill in until they find permanent staff, or they don’t want to employ permanent staff so use a temp instead, or they aren’t sure what they want (as in one last role) but they need help. These are contracts of 3 months and more though, up to 18 months and over.

In most of the companies where I worked on longer contracts I was expected to be loyal to the company and their values so do all the diversity and equality stuff plus induction etc, socialise etc (thank god it was covid time so I couldn’t!), and they wanted colleague integration. I saw myself as a temp contractor but they expected more! I still think especially re the latter it’s not nice to treat you badly especially in HR matters, because you’re a temp on a contract. Whereas to me, especially with 1 year and 18 month etc contracts it gave me a chance to see if I wanted to work there permanently.

I’d agree that our pay rate once the agency took their commission, tax etc wasn’t much more than what permanent members of staff were on.

There's a difference between being on a fixed term contract, which is an employed status which happens to have a pre-agreed end date rather than being permanent, and being a contractor outside IR35, which is a self-employed state where you provide a service to a company and they pay for it literally day to day as they please. The law increasingly distinguishes very clearly between employees and contractors to prevent abuse of contracting rules by companies that don't wish to offer benefits or pay full taxes, and it's pivotal to a contracting role that you are not an employee and neither receive the benefits nor carry the expectations of an employee. Contractors don't get a pension or holiday and the company doesn't pay NI on their behalf; either they handle these things themselves or they pay an agency to handle the paperwork.

Contracting can be very lucrative, especially in the tech space, and also allows for a lot of flexibility if you're good at it.

Littlegreene82 · 11/10/2023 17:04

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Londonscallingme · 11/10/2023 17:04

I don’t think they’ll believe you and it could come back to bite you on the arse. You achieve nothing by ‘lobbing the grenade’ and it could ultimately be self sabotage.

Littlegreene82 · 11/10/2023 17:05

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SylvieLaufeydottir · 11/10/2023 17:06

MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:02

That the so called assistant was said to be on a different project but was actually my replacement and EVERYONE lied about it.

They could have just said "thanks, we don't need you from next week". They double-paid for a while basically to preserve your feelings.

They were never your employer. They were your client, and part of what they were paying for was to not have obligations to you other than paying your fees on time.

Honestly, it sounds like you might not be suited to contracting and should go back to being employed.

MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:06

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Brought in a couple of weeks before I left? Yeah, right.

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MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:09

SylvieLaufeydottir · 11/10/2023 17:06

They could have just said "thanks, we don't need you from next week". They double-paid for a while basically to preserve your feelings.

They were never your employer. They were your client, and part of what they were paying for was to not have obligations to you other than paying your fees on time.

Honestly, it sounds like you might not be suited to contracting and should go back to being employed.

Actually I agree with this. Contracting doesn't suit me. But I can't go into details as to why I ended up here...

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MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:14

Not renewed. Onwards and upwards...

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SylvieLaufeydottir · 11/10/2023 17:14

Okay. But yeah, in that case I'd take it as a lesson that you're at your best as an employee, because you do seem to have wanted your client to treat you as an employee, despite the fact that by law they are literally not allowed to do so. If they had treated you like an employee, they'd have opened themselves up to a shitshow with HMRC.

Chalk it up to experience, and bear in mind that the skills of a schmoozer can be surprisingly valuable to an organisation. It's not all about grinding with your head down.

Littlegreene82 · 11/10/2023 17:15

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Littlegreene82 · 11/10/2023 17:16

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CreationNat1on · 11/10/2023 17:18

They know already, you don't need to explain it to them, they know and acquiesce to it all.

RedRobyn2021 · 11/10/2023 17:18

I agree with the others don't do it

MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:20

SylvieLaufeydottir · 11/10/2023 17:14

Okay. But yeah, in that case I'd take it as a lesson that you're at your best as an employee, because you do seem to have wanted your client to treat you as an employee, despite the fact that by law they are literally not allowed to do so. If they had treated you like an employee, they'd have opened themselves up to a shitshow with HMRC.

Chalk it up to experience, and bear in mind that the skills of a schmoozer can be surprisingly valuable to an organisation. It's not all about grinding with your head down.

Fair point, well made.

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madeleine85 · 11/10/2023 17:24

I'm pretty sure HR put it straight in the bin, if they even take note of it. They are there to protect the company, he still works there, you don't, and frankly they don't care about things like this when you have been terminated. If you tell them, you will feel good for the first day or so, but then what if your paths cross again in future employment etc. It honestly is not worth it. Just tell yourself that karma will eventually catch up to him. It sometimes does :)

jenpil · 11/10/2023 17:44

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Yes, this.

MackenCheese · 11/10/2023 17:45

Thanks, guys, for all your good advice.

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CarmenBurrito · 11/10/2023 17:47

There are two separate things. You weren’t sacked. This is part of life for a contractor. Secondly, keep your dignity. Hold you head high, walk out with pride. Worlds are small and you don’t want to be known as that person.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 11/10/2023 17:54

CarmenBurrito · 11/10/2023 17:47

There are two separate things. You weren’t sacked. This is part of life for a contractor. Secondly, keep your dignity. Hold you head high, walk out with pride. Worlds are small and you don’t want to be known as that person.

Yeah, sadly it is. I was once canned after 2 days for tutting as I worked (actually it was that they'd recruited a permanent person and didn't want my agency - who was supposed to have sole recruiting rights - that they'd used another one).

And you definitely don't want to be the temp who goes down in company folklore.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 11/10/2023 21:37

SylvieLaufeydottir · 11/10/2023 17:03

There's a difference between being on a fixed term contract, which is an employed status which happens to have a pre-agreed end date rather than being permanent, and being a contractor outside IR35, which is a self-employed state where you provide a service to a company and they pay for it literally day to day as they please. The law increasingly distinguishes very clearly between employees and contractors to prevent abuse of contracting rules by companies that don't wish to offer benefits or pay full taxes, and it's pivotal to a contracting role that you are not an employee and neither receive the benefits nor carry the expectations of an employee. Contractors don't get a pension or holiday and the company doesn't pay NI on their behalf; either they handle these things themselves or they pay an agency to handle the paperwork.

Contracting can be very lucrative, especially in the tech space, and also allows for a lot of flexibility if you're good at it.

Very true what you say.

I can’t quite recall what I was under but think it was an umbrella contract so another company handled my NI etc.

As far as I recall I didn’t receive holiday pay, as it wasn’t paid.

Agreed I had no rights, but this global organisation treated me appallingly. I found out after I left that there was a gang of 4 in my business area who weren’t trusted, played one person off against the other and didn’t like each other. My main gripe was that they actually encouraged me and wanted me to have a permanent job with them, yet the hierarchy and team interplay was so toxic (which I didn’t know about until after I left) that me and another contractor would always find things tough. A permanent colleague of mine so after she joined had no choice but to take on a maternity colleague’s workload with no extra pay for it. She left after 10 months.

AIstolemylunch · 12/10/2023 05:50

You need to develop a thicker skin if you're going to continue contracting, and not get so emotionaly involved with the companies you're working at. It's completely standard as a contractor to not get your contact renewed, with v little notice, and for companies to bring in perm replacements as and when they have the budget. The fact that you were even thinking about complaining to the HR department of a company you do not, and never did, work for makes me think you don't really understand what it is you are doing. You are self employed and work for yourself, or maybe an umbrella company. Why would the HR department give a damn about what you think, you weren't their employee?

Littlegreene82 · 12/10/2023 05:59

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MackenCheese · 12/10/2023 06:45

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Yes I do. This has been a valuable lesson though. Thanks for the advice.

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