Asked about salary negotiation and they both

[opstopop]

Wrote on their bits of paper - either initials or a mark. Was that some kind of downgrade?

They said no, there's no room for negotiation whatsoever.

I always end up with lower paid jobs!

They mentioned things about staying late because of back logs and large work loads. No mention of extra payment or time off in lieu. I don't work for free.

Do any of you do this without being compensated in some way?
If this was said at an interview and you aren't a highly paid executive, would you see this as a red flag? Overworked, underpaid perhaps?

Almost reluctantly and dismissively, it was mentioned that you can work from home a couple of days a week, apparently nobody does and everyone comes in. I would want to do work from home 2 days a week for sure!

Would you think this person would be a micro-manager type?

Would you withdraw and keep looking or would you still hope to be the chosen one?!

If you're going for NHS/civil service type roles then the salary is the salary, the likelihood of negotiation is slim.

If you're going private sector and they've listed a specific number then there's the possibility they'll negotiate but not great, if they've listed a salary range or no salary at all you have more chance to negotiate.

Negotiation is done after you've convinced them they need you, so wait for an offer.

I often work extra and am not financially compensated but I also have plenty of leeway so if need time off for appointments or whatever it's never an issue and sometimes get to finish early so I see it as swings and roundabouts

I think as long as you aren't expecting huge amounts extra salary it's fine to negotiate but don't do it till they tell you what they are offering, as a pp said, often roles are restricted with budgets and bandings, also they will bench mark your experience against existing staff

I suspect this role isn't for you though mainly due to you wfh and it's not their culture

I was about to come back and say what others have said - if the role is public sector or third sector but providing services to the public sector under contract, as it sounds like it might be from your broad description, there probably isn’t any scope to negotiate further on salary.

Generally though, the normal negotiation range on salary is about 10% on the first offer, so in your case it would probably be ask if they can do £30k and be happy if they come back at £29k. But it’s often harder to negotiate at all for more junior/entry level roles because they are easy to fill, and also harder if you have no previous experience in a similar role as they are taking a punt on you.

The best advice if you want a better paying role - say £35k-£40k is to apply for the roles which advertise this salary band and ensure your CV pulls out all relevant transferable skills and you are well prepped for the interview. Research shows that men will apply for and get roles where they only meet about 20% of the job specs whereas woman only apply where they meet 80%+ so it’s worth trying to be a bit braver and see how you get on!

All great advice- thank you so much.

I will resent being overworked, with no flexibility and bad pay. It's so depressing I go round in circles in the same type of role.

I'm still glad I posted though, as I am getting all the good tips!

the time to ask about salary negotiation is when you’re offered the job rather than at interview.

it could go against you if they think they can get another candidate cheaper. But on this occasion it sounds as if you dodged a bullet anyway!

If there are backlogs, they need to recruit more than 1 person and those people need to be able to leave on time! Clearly they do not have enough people and they are trying to recruit someone on the cheap to do more than 1 job.
For 80k I'd work a bit longer (periodically) but 27k I'd be out the door on time.
Further, how can they just expect people to stay late? They do not know your other commitments eg children or caring for parents.
No way would I go there - it is so important to find a work-life balance and mentally and physically rest away from work.

No. I work extra hours at times - to get ready for an event. But the red flag for me is that they said backlogs?? That sounds like they are understaffed. So you will be overworked, work long hours unpaid and have to go in everyday ??? No thanks! I wonder why they are understaffed

Well they did say they have just caught up, after "begging" for extra resources. But now it's all sitting there and they don't want to get behind again. Hence taking someone else on.

I don't know how to get out of the rut of continually finding only these types of roles.

Oh and they admitted morale had been low!

I think they might have forgotten that part of interviewing is about selling themselves as an employer to the candidates! But all for the good as it helps you swerve them.

Honestly this sounds like a good job to skip OP! They won’t have given you the full picture, and what they have said sounds bad enough.

Have you thought about doing a job with some specific training, or even an apprenticeship? Something like a junior project manager role could be a good plan, getting a qualification during the role then moving on and up.

@TryAgainWithFeeling I'm always reading on here about how people re-trained successfully and it really gives me hope.

If they did apprenticeships in Project Management that would be amazing. My cousin always told me to get a Princes 2 qualification, but I really would rather train on the job. Bid Management also interests me.

I think I should get some professional guidance from somewhere. Whenever I look for jobs on Indeed, the options all seem to be very low paid type jobs with zero benefits. I never see apprenticeships for great roles.

Project management apprenticeships definitely exist. Here are some ideas - you’ll probably find big employers like these do set recruitment cycles, smaller employers may do more ad hoc: https://www.fcdoservicescareers.co.uk/career-areas/apprenticeships/
https://careers.rolls-royce.com/united-kingdom/students-and-graduates/apprenticeships-and-school-leavers/#our-programmes-tabs

But an exceedingly broad brush statement, I would expect most good employers with junior project management roles would pay for a qualification, as you don’t need a degree level one to get started. Prince2 is popular in civil service, I think APM seems more widely requested in private sector.

I’ve been in a bit of a career fog recently. So I looked at where I want to end up, and worked backwards. Sometimes it’s hard to see what the junior jobs are about, but if you look at a more senior job you can work out what experience you would need to be considered for it, then what job you’d need for that.

(I literally just googled “project management apprenticeship” and got those - Indeed is limited.)

Thank you very much for taking the time to post those links @TryAgainWithFeeling, I would love to do more interesting work. This is a good place to start.

I hope you succeed in whatever you decide to do

I've just been reading your post. Lots of great advice. Would love to hear an update from you sometime in the future to tell us how well you are doing!

If it’s public sector than I’m not surprised

im really concerned they spoke about working
unpaid overtime during the interview though. That’s the type of shitty practice they try and hide!

I must admit I negotiate AFTER I am offered the job - last job (teacher in an indep school) they upped the salary offered by £10k and threw in accommodation

I am (infrequently) involved in the interview process and HR have drummed into us to be careful about the notes that we make because candidates can request copies! Not sure if you’d want to but there it is.

Agree with @Invisimamma. You're not wrong to ask about salary and try to negotiate but leave it until they are making an offer. At interview stage, the only thing to worry about is impressing them enough to be offered the job and once they want you, it's fine to talk about salary.

@Flouya Aw that's so kind! I was going to give an update, as to whether I got the job or not.
I am meant to hear by the end of the week I think.

I don't think I will now because of my faux pas, but I would now say it will be a good thing. I need to focus on getting something decent instead of the same old, same old.

I've been looking at the apprenticeships, but it is a bit of a mine field. Im calling a help phone line today.

@supplycaptain I'm not sure it's public sector as you do t even get the good pension!

It's a HA.

@Peaceandkindness Good for you, that's what I like to hear! Xxx

@Blueroses99 That is why they probably wrote in code!

Although I didn't see it, it was so quick. It was not even a word, probably a mark of some kind. Past caring to be honest now, I don't want another overworked, underpaid, inflexible role. It's soul-destroying and causes horrible depression.

Hi everyone!

I didn't get the job! In fact they didn't even have the courtesy to let me know. Looks like I dodged a bullet! Good job after encouragement here, I started the process of getting on more of a career path and wasn't sat around waiting.

However, how do I go about getting the interview notes? I want to see what the mark was when I asked about salary! 🥴😂 - I'm so curious!