Discrimination or not?

[NMAI]

PART-TIME WORKING ... we all know just how difficult it is to find part-time jobs, let alone progressive, well paid part-time jobs with training and opportunities.
I work for a very large company of over 12k employees. They are great in many aspects, pay, bonus, training if you are full time, benefits, culture etc. BUT it's INCREDIBLY difficult to find part-time opportunities in the business.

In my 'quest' to find a part-time opportunity due to my secondment ending in December, I have come up against massive 'anti part-time' attitudes, culture and language throughout the business.

Some examples;

• Internal recruitment manager states 'Branches do not like part-time, which is difficult because there are so many great part-time job-seekers I could place in roles'
• HR Manager States; "Part-time usually means four full time days. There's very few to no roles part-time"
• Area Manager States (after being asked if they'd consider part-time in a branch assistant manager role); "A part-time manager would not set a good example"
• Being asked numerous times when I'd be thinking about increasing my hours.
• Senior Manager vetoing the option for the opportunity of a full-time role being trialled on a part-time basis despite my career history and experience being very well matched to the role and an interim manager putting me forward for the role telling me I'd fit the role perfectly. Senior manager also states that IF they'd even consider a 3/4 day role, it would be "incredibly busy and knowing how much I want work life balance and the importance of my family, it might not work"!!!
• The business working hard on their equality, diversity and inclusion policies with key focuses on certain groups (menopause, disability, women) and with a motto that outlines their values as 'purposeful & valuable to all' they completely disregard and ignore part-time groups of people. They also have a Gender & Development network and celebrate Women's International Day with events and the like.
• When I pose the question to HR Seniors - will the business start focussing on part-time and flexile working - I am completely ignored! On live HR Teams meetings, I ask the question - again getting ignored altogether whilst other questions get acknowledged

To me this is direct and indirect discrimination - not just discriminatory to me but to ALL that limited to working part-time or only want to work part time. Am I wrong to think this?

My husband says none of it is aimed at me so it's not discrimination and warns I could be playing the victim. BUT it's not just about me.

I also have a particular history with this company 16 years ago not allowing me to work part-time 3-days following the birth of my first daughter. They used VERY weak excuses that, at the time, did pursue an ACAS enquiry but due to poor mental health (post-natal depression), I was not strong mentally to challenge.

Of course not. How is that a good solution?

I think there should not be automatic prejudice against PT workers. Every flexible working request should be decided on its own facts, looking objectively at the effect on the business and employee wellbeing. In particular there are extra protections for disabled people and those associated with them. So the company has to have a good reason to reject a flexible working request. This is the law as it stands but a lot of companies ignore it, or have a compliant policy but ignore it in practice.

In my experience, PT workers end up doing the same amount of work as FT workers as they are more focused and efficient. So companies are shooting themselves in the foot by being prejudiced against PT workers as a lot of the time they get the same productivity as a FT worker but can pay them less.

Of course some people take the piss but, again, in my experience it is the FT workers who are inefficient and workshy. The PT workers in my company (mainly women with children) are effectively doing FT roles in PT hours.

Many managerial positions involve line managing people. If all the managers are part time, who leads the team while the manager isn't working?

There are very few senior/leadership roles that are part time. The job just doesn't lend itself well to that and as the saying goes, 'to whom much is given, much is required'.

It's nonsensical to suggest it's discriminatory.

Can't speak for others but I managed it very easily by ensuring people were trained so they knew what they were doing so they didn't crumble if I wasn't around 1 day a week 😊

Thank you for all of your replies, apologies that I can't reply to each one. It's given me a very balanced view of things and there's lots I've taken on board.

I've realised that I'm fairly bitter toward the company due to the fact they wouldn't honour a very workable flexible working request 14 years ago. This has somewhat skewed my relationship & attitude toward the business given that, after I was forced to leave a career I'd worked hard for and loved, I ended up bouncing around part time jobs that I hated.

I hated the fact that I'd ended up at the bottom of the pile again in low skilled low paid jobs just so I could get part time hours when Id worked so hard to progress & get promoted in a career I enjoyed. I found it extremely hard to accept that and still haven't fully accepted, (but then again why should I?!) that part-time often means, low paid, low skilled jobs. It often means sacrificing a good job, progression and career. We couldn't move house, we couldn't go on holiday, we struggled financially for many years. I struggled psychologically to accept I'd gone backwards in life.

So there's a fair bit of psychological baggage that comes with this problem.

And I realise this has clouded my judgment & behavior and some of your messages have helped clear the fog as such. So thank you, I've really listened to most of your comments - aside from the nasty , judgemental, negative & non- helpful people who can't help but try to bring a person down. I've ignored those! Not sure why people feel the need to be such axxxhxl.s! But there we are. Some people are just that!

I DO still wholeheartedly believe that people who want or can only work part-time are discriminated against, limited & marginalized and we've a LONG way to go. And actually PT can work in most roles, it's just too hard for people to get off the traditional 9-5 M-F roundabout. Too much effort to be progressive!

Agree with you there. Yes many comments are very short-sighted, downright nasty or just plain uneducated!

Thank you.

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Agree with you there. Yes many comments are very short-sighted, downright nasty or just plain uneducated!

Thank you.

Why so many deleted posts on this thread? They didn't break guidelines. Very odd.

Any role can be done part time or by job share.

I know CEOs who job share and senior directors who are part time, or do compressed hours, job share, term time, 4 day weeks.

Let's get this straight, I'm not entitled, I want to work bl00dy hard for the hours I work, give it my all & enjoy pro-rated perks, growth, opportunity & progression and not be prioritised over full time employees ... just given the same opportunities of growth & progression as my full time counterparts.

So why am I 'entitled'? I really can't fathom that notion?

Just because you work full-time does that entitle YOU to favourable treatment? Are you 'better' than me because you work more hours?! Should you have more opportunity for progression, career advancement, training simply because you can work more hours. What makes you more more entitled?

I'm not sure you fully grasp what I'm saying TBH. I think people like you think I'm one of those who can afford to swan around in PT jobs demanding this & that. No, I simply have a set of circumstances that means I can only work PT ... and believe me it's certainly not because we have money!

No, not SC. X

Thanks for your support. Honeybadgermom is somewhat misguided. It's SO refreshing to hear of a success story with a progressive PT management role. It CAN be done but the blinkered, uneducated, unwilling attitudes of society today, still steeped in imbedded archaic, industrialised attitudes prevents many businesses from evolving.

Many businesses just see the trouble with part-time employment over the myriad of benefits.

Wishing you all the very best in your role.

That's just incredibly sad that you can't switch off from your job and really enjoy a vacation! Life is not all about work & money. Cant take it with you & in a 100 years from now, your house will belong to someone else, your car & worldly belongings will be scrap and you'll be long forgotten. Is it REALLY worth it? We're here for a fractional moment in an expanse of time...

Not a chance would I take a vacation & have my work with me! My laptop stays at home, my work mobile gets switched off and it's ME TIME! I immerse myself in my family, fun, freedom. No amount of money would make my family & free time second best!

What are you lacking to make you work so hard?!

By the way no one is really as important as you make yourself sound! You're TOTALLY disposable & a number like everyone else. You're no different!

Wow. "What am I lacking to make me work so hard?" Nothing. I'm lacking nothing, it's called "work ethic." I get a lot of satisfaction and self esteem from being good at what I do. I don't even know how to explain to someone like you, who clearly doesn't value work or achievement, what it means to me to be good at my job. Can you imagine if someone said something like your post to a man? He would laugh at you. Which is what I'm doing.

You're criticizing me for working hard, calling me names and telling me I don't matter. You seem really defensive against a woman who works. Which sadly, is pretty typical around MN, it seems. Women are allowed to have widdle silly jobs but a woman with a career and serious responsibility is told she's worthless and an empty person? What a joke.

I don't stop being a parent when I'm on vacation. I don't stop being an adult when I'm on vacation. I don't stop being the person I am when I'm on vacation. I find it very telling that you think you can't enjoy your family if you have grown up responsibilities.

We are ALL disposable. At the end of the day, everyone can be replaced. You have NO idea what my job is, what I do, how important I am. You're lashing out because a woman is working hard and succeeding. You should look inside yourself and ask yourself why my success makes you so bitter.

I swear, the worst misogyny always comes from women. 🙄

I have been known to deal with work issues when I'm on holiday. I don't think that means I'm "lacking" in any way, and frankly, I find that suggestion a bit offensive.

The reality is that a significant number of very vulnerable people depend on my work, and there are some things that can't easily be covered by other people during my absence. I certainly prioritise my family and leisure time as much as I possibly can, but if I have to log on for half an hour while on holiday to sort out something urgent, then of course I would do it. Just as I would take time out of my working day if necessary to sort out an urgent family issue.

I certainly don't expect my team to check their emails or deal with work related stuff while they are on holiday - that shouldn't be a requirement in junior or middle management roles. Many senior leaders who I know agree that it's actually less stressful to keep an eye on stuff while you are away so that you know you won't have to walk into a mess when you get back. It's all very well to say that you ensure that your team is trained to deal with things when you're off, but in some fields, it isn't always possible to predict the kind of curve balls that might arise.

I certainly don't judge you for wanting to prioritise your time off for yourself and your family - that's completely reasonable. But I do object to the suggestion that people are somehow "lacking" if they occasionally need to attend to urgent work issues while they're off.

Work life balance looks different to different people. For some, it is about sticking to rigid working hours and having a blanket ban on doing anything work-related outside of those hours. Personally, I prefer a much more fluid approach where I might do a fair bit of work outside my contracted hours but, equally, if I need to deal with something personal during my working hours, I feel perfectly able to do so.

Hmmm, where did I call you names!!? I'm not sure I'm the defensive one here.

Got your goat a little there did it my little lovely?!

You are nothing special, yet you try to put others down to make yourself feel special. This desperate need for you to declare to the world that you're fabulous and brilliant and unique at in an amazingly specialist role. Good for you @HoneyBadgerMom good for you. Round of applause, all bow down now for the person who believes in her little bubble that she's much more worthy than the rest! Narcissist much?!

Where too did I 'criticise' you? 😂. Perhaps with the ultra high pressure in your superstar job, you're primed for criticism.

Ha ha yes poor insignificant me doesn't value work achievement because I CHOOSE to switch completely off of work and enjoy my vacations for exactly that, a vacation. Maybe, just maybe it's not me who's bitter but the woman who can't choose to switch off?! You don't make an awful lot of sense for one who declares such intellect, social equity and amazing achievement in life!

Your rant an awful lot about people being immature and not grown up if they don't have high powered jobs.

I'm hardly 'lashing out' darling .... I'm super happy that you're uber successful... bravo that lady. I just find it super sad that you can't switch off from work!

You're SO wrapped up in yourself that you lack the emotional intelligence to perceive ones meaning!

And if MN is SO misogynistic and defensive against women 'who work' (quite a broad scope there!) Why are you even on here?!!! 😂

Is this diatribe supposed to convince me that you're the level-headed one here?

"I deserve preferential treatment for promotions even though I don't want to work as much."

"I would never go the extra mile in my job and anyone who does is missing something in their life."

"You're bitter because you care about your job! You can't possibly be successful, hard work doesn't lead to success, handouts do!"

"Your whole life is empty and meaningless because you disagree that merit is how promotions should be decided!"

This is lunacy. This is like playing chess with a pigeon, you just knock over all the pieces, smarm about "darling" and "my little lovely" condescendingly, and strut about like you've won something.

Keep whining about not getting promoted, I'm sure it's discrimination and not that you're a entitled and think you're superior to everyone else.

Oh my gosh, you win! My little pigeon brain can't take this any longer 😂😂😂.

And there ladies and gentlemen you have the epitomy of a narcissist in full attempt to demean, belittle and humiliate another in a teeny tiny attempt to gain power and make themselves feel superior!

The twisting of words and application of meanings far from actual & original intent

Narcissists such as this, say and do things to make others feel small (especially when they're feeling small themselves).

In a desperate need to regulate their shaky self-esteem, they tend to act entitled to make others feel worse. Which of course I don't! 😩.

Oh, my poor pigeon brain can no longer take it. Would you like me to tell you you 'won'. I know it's what you need. Okay then, you won, there you go my little darling, you WON, you're SO much the intellect, so profound in your malignant narcissism that I am going to flap my teeny tiny pigeon wings and go away now 😜😜😜👏👏👏.

Oh how I've enjoyed the game .... because clearly that's what I set out to do; play a game and win. Yes it was all about the winning mwah ha ha ha ha!

Oooh and it IS telling how quickly you responded to my response. Brilliant. Love it!

Well this didn't end well.

OP your last post doesn't come across well.

Time to sign out and have a glass of wine or whatever you like and put MN away.

Hopefully you find a part time role that gives you the career progression you want. They are around but incredibly rare unfortunately.

I've realised that I'm fairly bitter toward the company due to the fact they wouldn't honour a very workable flexible working request 14 years ago.

14 years of feeling bitterness

bloomin heck

On the basis of how you’ve come across on this thread - I would say you have made that “bitterness” abundantly clear in the workplace and it may explain their stance towards you

Explains the employers stance to the OP if nothing else

Narcissists such as this, say and do things to make others feel small (especially when they're feeling small themselves).

Is this why you asked what a pp was "lacking" to make her work so hard, OP? It's good that you have a level of self awareness, at least. Thank you for explaining where you're coming from.

It sounds like you have a lot of issues going on alongside the fact that you can't find a part time role that suits you. Some counselling might help?