City solicitors - Does 4 day week work for you?

[Faithfeather]

Any city solicitors working a 4-day week? Pros and cons? Which day off works best?

I don't work in the city, i work in legal aid, but friends who work in the city have either monday or friday off to give them a long weekend and to ensure a good chunk of work is done in that 4 days. for one friend, it is working fine, she works for a bank. for another, who works for a magic circle firm that shall remain nameless, it is pure hell, so much pressure, and they always without fail ring her on her day off. She is starting to crack and talking about putting her littlest in full time nursery so she can at least put in an appearance on her day off!!!

Depends on your specialism. Can you share?

Fridays are awful all round. Completions (property, transactions, any corporate support) and clients who don't want to wait 'until next week' for things.

A four day week is bloody hard as a City lawyer. It also depends how senior you are. Are you high enough up that you won't be grudingly seen by your colleagues as dumping your work on them? Are you in an area where work will wait?

There was a thread a while back from someone complaining about not being promoted because she was part time. That really covered a lot of the pros and cons of part time working more generally.

Agree with Ribena - though that recent thread had a lot more under the surface than the part timeness of the OP, I thought.

Would you be happy to use a Blackberry on your day off? It seems to make your working life more bearable, but equally your day off is not then a true day off.

We have a planning partner here who has been 4 days a week for 20 years, but will insist on replying to emails on Fridays (even the ones I send headed Do Not Read Till Monday). We also have a property lawyer here, senior enough to delegate her Friday completions, who told one client she was p/t after working for them for 4 years and it came as a complete surprise to them - again, the Blackberry fix, coupled with a PA who will ring to say that something has come in that she needs to look at.

I've been hapy working a fairly 7 day week for over 10 years which in fact takes more pressure off you (but I work for myself so it's entirely up to me). It does mean you can spread 5 days work over 7 and on two of them you get relatively peaceful days and you can integrate home things into the working week too.

Xenia, your life sounds like a total nightmare, but you seem to like it so good for you! I mean that. but sometimes i read your posts and i just think that you must be on speed or prozac or something chemical that makes you keep going with a kind of unswerving determination to career / financial success. for you and your kids. its amazing really,
do you ever think 'sod it' ?

I suppose I love the work, is that the key? Also isn't an integrated 7 day week where you can be there for the children when they need you (I'm accompanying two music exams in school time next week for two of them, I'm at a parents' evening at 5 today) is possible because of that 7 day structure (and I work for myself too so I have total control) and apart from sex I think the thing I enjoy most is aspects of the work actually although time with the children is fun too and talking to them and chatting in bed. In a way I work like people always have when people worked and lived in the same place on farms etc - the work and life and children integrate together when I'm here. Although sometimes I got out with my big gun to kill so we can eat as it were and some weeks I'm out all week so it's hrd to generalise.

But I do think more working parents should consider this and also remember it's not that long ago a 6 day working wee was the norm and not let our set prejudices about what ought to be a working day get in the way of what we as people actually want and prefer.

i as a person want a 4 day week to be the norm. i don't think it is set prejudices that leads to people not working a 6 or day week, its that they would be bloody exhausted if they did that and kids.
and you have sex too?
you really are an uber human.

Fridays are a popular choice to have off but as Ribenaberry says, it is usually the nightmare day to pick because of the completions, plus you don't get to do the social stuff (drinks trolley, after work drinks, conferences) which are usually on a Friday. I have a friend who is off Wednesdays - she finds that easier to manage. You tend to work your day "off". Lots of people (i am sure Xenia will back me on this) end up working five days for four days pay and five days, fixed hours is often picked

Which is why unless you're really set on it part time is the worst of all worlds. Also husbands then tend to think you can have all the domestic dross dumped on you too so you get kicked in at both ends and you don't have proper career any more and usually you're career is shot to pieces in some types of jobs (by no means all). Bad deal all round. Housewife or full time work I often think are the better deals. I had lunch at a work thing today and the man next to me changed jobs so he could do more child care (and he although he worked in the City, they put his wife's career above hers, not sure on how basis or how they worked it out and now the child is at boarding school anyway but it just shows even men make these adjustments by choice when they have children sometimes.

Gyffin - five days, fixed hours, would never be granted in my place/department.

I actually think that saying you'll do that can be really unfair on colleagues because what it almost always means IME is "I will walk out at 5:30pm, dumping my files on the NQ/trainee/other colleague as I go". I know that's an awful generalisation, and I am sure that there are some people who make it work, but I think fixed hours has massive potential to generate resentment and ill feeling in a profession where working overtime without additional pay is the norm. There are probably some specialisms where it is more do-able than others.

I totally agree with the statement about a mid week day off though. Fewer deadlines, and clients are far more willing to wait Tuesday to Wednesday, or Wednesday till Thursday than Friday to Monday.

What works best I think is being totally flexible about which day it is each week (if you can possibly do that)

I officially do 4 days a week in an investment bank and nominally I take the Monday off, but in reality I tend to work flat out 5 days a week for a few weeks, and then take a few days off on the trot. That way my bosses are 100% happy because they can rely on me when there are deadlines, and I love it because I get a whole week off every month or so which means I can really 'do' something with it rather than just having a day of chores and shopping and so on. The slack periods where I can take these breaks always co-incide with school holidays (when the clients themselves are away) so it works really well.

I think trying to stick to one day a week when you have clients to service is almost impossible unless you are willing to be a slave to your blackberry. It gets very frustrating sitting in a Tesco car park for half an hour talking to a client on what is supposed to be your day off...

If you do need to have that one day a week then I have seen it work pretty well for in-house roles..

I tried a 4 day week and it was a disaster. I ended up doing all nighters or working till 11 just to meet deadlines week after week and kept taking more and more work on. Our nanny was always having to stay on really late (dh is a partner in a magic circle firm so was often home late too) I got fed up with trying to be super lawyer/mother/wife and decided to go full time and it's a million times better. I honestly think that I work less hours total than I did when I was "part time". I can even take a lunch break (sometimes) without feeling guilty because I'm not working right through!

Coming from the other side of the street I would rarely be happy having a part-timer on a team that I was paying for. I appreciate that people only get paid a small fraction of the hourly charge rates, but frankly when the charge-out rate is coming out of my budget then to hear that it is X's day off does not work for me. If it has to be done then I would choose one of Tues-Thu as there isn't such a long gap before you get back to me.

Not sure whether it follows as a general rule or not, but the time I have most frequently come across part-timers in magic circle or Big 4 is when we have had people seconded to us (which I am guessing are not the most sought after roles).

I have to agree with all the above post. I think working 4 days a week is very very difficult for a lawyer. My best friend does it (she takes Fridays off) and it is slowly driving her mad. She still does the work she is supposed to do but in 4 days instead of 5 and for a 4 days pay. Don't know if it will completely shoot her career but she has to bring work home more and more often. They still call her on her day off (very easy to talk to the client when trying to change a nappy or feed a baby) so she is stressed because of that too. It is just a lose lose situation.

I have left the city and work in-house and even in-house I don't think I would consider part-time work as unless you have someone to share your job, it is very difficult to do everything in less than your five days. And if you don't have a job sharer, then you come back on the Monday to a massive backlog I assume.

I think I like to feel I'm 100% available to those I work for and my children. So if there's a work thing that really has to be done then we do it however late. If a child is dangerously ill in hospital then that takes priority. I certainly endorse the point above - if you're being paid what some of us are paid over 40 times the minimum wage or whatever then it's perfectly reasonable to expect that person to be available.

by the way (hijack alert) if anyone hasn't yet seen my flexi work research plea can I please ask them to nip over here (apologies to the many of you on the thread who have already been kind enough to post/mail me). Thanks...

I am with Xenia on the 6 day a week semi-flexible work schedule. Am a writer/academic so work invades my whole life if I'm not careful.

However, dh has one of those 100% jobs so my work always ends up coming second if there is an emergency/illness/general admin stuff to do. I find that very annoying but cannot do anything about it. He is simply unavailable and I am not.

I think with office-based work it must be much harder to achieve integration of work and home life IF you want the due rewards for your hard work (seniority, a degree of control within your organisation etc.)

I do know a male employment law partner who works a 3 day week- but he has a full time nanny!! He also told me he thinks he got the flexible work since being an employment lawyer he knew exactly how to demand it...

Sorry if repeating what you'll have already found in archives -

I asked (years ago now) for a 4-day week & my firm said no, but suggested the "annual equivalent" - so, an 80% year: being paid 80% and having around 14 (? I think it was) weeks' leave entitlement.

This turned out to be too much time off (!) so we adjusted it to 85% - gives me around 11 weeks to take off. I take them in chunks, around school holidays (which tends to be when transactions naturally go a bit quieter anyway).

It does work very well - I adore my long stretches with the children (who are nearly 9 and 7.5 now), and it genuinely hasn't been disruptive re work, so I can continue being a transactional lawyer, which is what I like. BUT BUT BUT (in this firm anyway) it has completely stalled my career progression - that will not take off again (or at all) unless I go back to year-round full-time.

Ribena - that's really interesting that fixed hours is no go at your place. I am at at a Magic Circle firm, and fixed hours in our team is preferred to part time. The fixed hours does lead to frustrations exactly like you describe - I am a full full-timer myself - but I find people dump files on trainees and NQ's because they "don't do Tuesdays" too.

I have friends who are 4 days a week going slowly mad juggling client demands from home, sitting in the swimming pool changing rooms trying to do conference calls etc or doing all the dross work (endless due diligence) they get stuck with. They are very frustrated. City firms try to make part time, but client demands over-ride that every time.

I tried a four day week on a flexible basis, much like Squiffy but I found it a bit frustrating.

So I am full-time now, it's the only thing I could do to make work sensible. I try, like Xenia to integrate life and work, it's the only way I seem to be able to manage work/life.

I know it is probably hypothetical in this case as it maybut would job sharing work for city lawyers?

So say 2 people in an organisation with similar qualifiactions etc wanted to work part time, could they share a job in a realistic way? Obviously this does only provide 2.5 days of work a week (unless one wants to work more than anohter) which may not be adequate income and the problem with career oprogression is still there, but could it work in theory given what the job entails?

I think client driven service jobs are VERY dificult to do part-time. I work in a business service industry and my 4 days a week often turns into 5-6 days a week for 4 days pay when we have a busy workload

I did 4 days a week for a big 4 accounting firm (as a partner) for 5 years. It worked as far as the firm and clients were concerned but was incredibly hard work/stressful for me. Effectively on call 5 days a week and am convinced i put in as many hours as full time male colleagues. Gave it all up when deadlines started falling in school holidays and i missed a couple of birthday parties etc. Much happier now (obviosly also much harder up...) Don't regret giving up but also pleased that I did manage it for a while.

I don't know many job shares in these types of jobs and when I come across them I actually find them really frustrating to work with because the person is off for 4 days. I don't know why the job sharer cannot be 100% up to speed with the other person's matters but when I've had that with women I'm working with they seem to make you have to wait until the other person is bad in the office.

I quite like my integrated working. Every morning I do the home post and admin and work post at the same time if I'm here and then if I'm out at the school as in late yesterday I can get back at 6 and then do work I would otherwise have done at 5 or whatever but I work for myself and if I don't work we starve so that's a pretty good incentive to get work done.

You know what Xenia I do think integrated working is probably a better way to work and to get flexibility BUT for me this would only work if I loved my job and it were an integral part of how I see myself. This is obviously true for you.

Frankly I would prefer not to be doing my job. It offers me a very good level of pay and for the indutry I'm in it is reasonably flexible. However my personal choice of work would be one that provides much less pay.

I do this work to provide a good income but tbh if it impinged on my life 7 days a week all the time I'd frankly either go mad or resign.