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Original poster

Negotiating new job offer... Help!

22 replies

Wiggleinherwalk · 09/09/2023 21:35

Hello!

I'm terrible at money negotiations at work, and don't know if I'm being unreasonable, so would be grateful for any advice..

So I've got the weekend to mull over a job offer for a new role at my company, and it looks like a great job, nice team, interesting work, good for CV, but it's just the pay element I'm a bit unsure about.

I started at the company back in Jan 2019 as an EA on an OK wage, but over the last 5 years it's not tracked with inflation at all - they used Covid as an excuse to not give me a payrise for 2 years, despite working on a huge project and having excellent feedback, and then the payrises I did receive before/after were at 1.5%. In the nearly 5 years I've been working there, I've gone up £2.5k. Comparative EA roles in my city if I left would be around £38-45k.

The new role is a step up, and they agree its a promotion rather than a side step, have offered £38k so a 10% payrise, which seems fair, but it's a lot more responsibility - Project Manager title, with several big pieces of work over the next year and apparently a VERY scatty manager who'd be good for ideas but I think almost all the logistics would fall to me.

Big thing that's bothering me is that company policy seems to be getting a 'promotion' at this time of year means I'd be ineligible for a payrise in Jan 2024, and they only do them annually, so although it would be a nice step up now I wouldn't qualify for a review until 2025...

Just feel like I've been overlooked since I've been there, and this is an opportunity to negotiate as it's a proper change, so just don't want to mess up the opportunity... But also don't want to seem greedy/create ill will.

Should I say I'd happily accept, but as I'd have been in the job for 4 months by end Jan that I'd want to be considered for a pay review? Or after 6 months in the job? Or yes, but I want them to sponsor me doing PRINCE2 training? Or just yes, thanks that's lovely?!

OP posts:

tealandteal · 09/09/2023 21:41

I would definitely ask for them to pay for Prince2 (plus allow you to do it in work time) if you are to be a PM. This

lauraisa · 09/09/2023 21:41

Take it, get that job title on your CV and then find a company with better pay! You got this!! You have no power if you stay in your current role.

AnnaBegins · 09/09/2023 21:43

Go very factual with it - "I am very excited about the opportunity, however as similar roles are currently advertised at £xyz a salary of £xyz would seem more appropriate for this role. Appreciate your consideration."
If you don't ask you don't get.

canfor · 09/09/2023 21:45

They have made you an offer - time for you to counter offer. Say that similar roles at other companies are paid x and you were anticipating at least y salary. I would go for 20% increase as my opening gambit.

As an alternative you can say you will accept for now but want a review of your pay in 6 months. This works well if they say they are taking a chance on you as you can agree to performance based increase.

Your knowledge of the company makes you a good hire. The worst they can do is say no.

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 09/09/2023 22:16

Thanks so much for your replies - do think asking for the training would be fair. I've bought some books to get to know the language/mindset of PMing, but having a more formal approach to processes would make me feel more confident!
Just so hard as looking at salaries the range is huge, from mid £30k to nearly £100k for people leading huge teams with massive budgets - it's a big scope to know where to pick a number!

OP posts:

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 09/09/2023 22:19

@lauraisa Do feel like once I have it on my CV, and hopefully the qualification to back it up, it would open up so many opportunities going forward at other places...! Got a 2 year old at the moment, so perhaps do this until she's at school to gain the experience, and then put my career back into gear!

OP posts:

canfor · 09/09/2023 22:20

Why not call a recruitment agency, have a chat and ask them where salaries are at for you industry and level of experience. Also a chance to get on their books - in a year or so you will have a prince behind you and solid experience.

Thebigblueballoon · 09/09/2023 22:22

Pfft. Tell them you want 40k.

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 09/09/2023 22:54

@Thebigblueballoon
I wish I was this ballsy!!
Just always had the (wrong?) mentality that hard work will get noticed, and be rewarded appropriately... Feel like I've finally been noticed, to get the offer, but just distrustful of Finance when it feels like "What's the least we can get away with?"

OP posts:

CapEBarra · 09/09/2023 22:58

If you like the company I’d accept the offer and maybe ask for an early review, Prince 2 training paid for and in work time and/or a project management apprenticeship degree. These tend to incorporate Prince 2 or Agile, and it will throw your career door wide open.

Amaura · 09/09/2023 22:59

You are currently an unqualified and inexperienced project manager, so it’s not unreasonable to be at the moment of the range. However, they should commit to paying your training, it happening in work time and pre approve a salary bump if you pass.

Labraradabrador · 09/09/2023 23:09

It is so much easier to negotiate big rises when you switch companies vs. Internal promotion. I also vote for taking the offered salary but asking for credentialed training, and then either looking at other companies or using it as a negotiating position for a bigger rise if you really like the company. I think your employer more likely to fund training than higher salary as it is a one off cost, and also because they benefit from a more skilled employee.

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 09/09/2023 23:11

@Amaura Thank you, completely fair comment about being at the start of my journey in terms of salary, but thank you for suggested counter offer terms - can't see that it would be unreasonable to ask for them to sponsor the qualification for the job they want me to do.

OP posts:

SoftPillowAllNight · 09/09/2023 23:13

Whatever you hope to negotiate out of them, start with something higher than that. No employer wants to simply 'agree' to candidates' ask. So you need to make them feel like you are meeting them half way. E.g. if you want them to sponsor the certification then ask for that plus £40k salary, then they will agree to one and turn down the other. They'll feel they have met you half way and you can happily accept.

Remember - if they hire an external candidate they will have to pay much more + the onboarding time/cost so they will very likely agree to a £2-3K hike for you.

Primproperpenny · 10/09/2023 08:13

Prince 2 isn’t all that - I mean, it’s nice to have something official but it’s essentially logic and common sense!

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 10/09/2023 13:42

@Primproperpenny Thanks for your note - Have you done the course?
I suppose in my head what I hope it would give me would be a solid grounding in how to approach a new project, the questions that need to be answered at the very start to avoid any nasty surprises, and some templates to use for progress/budget/people tracking.. And the confidence/authority to ask the key questions/challenge SLT if I see a beartrap in the path!

Have bought a few books on PM that are supposedly good for people newer to the role to try and make a start - got PM for Dummies, PM in a Week and Project Management for the Unofficial PM - if anyone has any suggestions please let me know!

OP posts:

Aprilx · 10/09/2023 17:23

You need to find out what the market rate is for similar roles and for somebody starting out in that type of role. I think no increase in January 2024 is reasonable, I have worked for thirty years and people joining late in the year or getting a promotion late in the year, would always be excluded from the next salary review. All the more reason to get it right now though.

Bookish88 · 10/09/2023 17:51

Wiggleinherwalk · 10/09/2023 13:42

My personal opinion having self studied for Prince2 is that it gets you past a CV sift and not much else. Found it completely and utterly pointless for hands-on, useable experience in the workplace.

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 11/09/2023 10:55

Have sent my reply this morning that I'd be delighted to accept the role change, but to be sponsored through the PRINCE2 training in work time, ideally before Christmas or if not early in the new year.

I didn't negotiate on pay as it did seem to be within (at the very lower end) of the going rate, so if they're recruiting me as a more junior PM I'm hoping it would give me a bit more leeway to ask for support/training as needed and not be expected to arrive with all the answers. Then come back strong in Jan 25 qualified and with experience under my belt.

My message has been read but no reply as of yet - imagine will need sign off from Finance... fingers crossed!
Just what do I do if they say outright no...?

OP posts:

SoftPillowAllNight · 11/09/2023 11:09

You can still accept if they say No. if you want to.

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 14/09/2023 08:00

So I sent my response/message on Monday, and it's been read but there's been no response whatsoever...
Not even an acknowledgement or a 'thanks for letting us know, we'll need to check the budgets but unlikely...'
So that's not great...
If it was going ahead I'd be starting to do the change in role from next week, so imagine they'll have to reply either today or tomorrow?!

OP posts:

Original poster

Wiggleinherwalk · 21/09/2023 20:22

Just an update that it's another week gone and still no yes or no on the training - the Finance guy is on A/L until 25th and would need to sign it off... Supposed to be starting new role first week of October.

However had a catch up with who would be my new line manager today and it was utterly rubbish. Bearing in mind they don't know me at all they didn't ask me a thing about myself/qualifications/experience, and then when the training came up said that our company is 'too fluid' and that to request formal PM training means to be 'closed minded and unflexible in my outlook/approach.' Suggested instead I can take a look at their PPTs to see their way of working/processes and just adopt that.
Then in the next breath said no-one in the team had any formal project management training, and that "now she's back to expect all the last minute requests" and to "drop everything for last minute asks".
Have heard from people who've worked with her previously that she's "nice but chaotic" - didn't see much evidence of the "nice".
So now I'm stumped - any positivity has evaporated, and their approach to personal development is shockingly poor!

OP posts:

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