Maternity Leave and holiday entitlement?

[soremummy]

Can anyone help me on this? My employers holiday year runs Jan to Dec and I worked 4 days a week with a total holiday entitlement of 16 days a year. I took 4 days holidays before taking my m/l in April last year. My smp ran out in January and in February I decided not to return to work. I have just had a payment into bank today (I think its from my employer but it's a total pittance) I need to find out would I / should I still be payed for my holidays? Anyone able to advise. Thanks

ooh, hello everyone!

I think the principle of the law is clear, you must be allowed the opportunity to take your leave, which soremummy was not. The principle of it being illegal to carry over or pay in lieu stat holiday entitlement is to make sure employees actually get the time off, so employers can't just pay them extra and give them no time off. That rule is obviously not intended to allow employers to deprive women on mat leave of their statutory entitlment although that is the effect.

Callme I think you are right most don't know/don't bother challenging.

Karen if there has been a test about this and you can find it that would be marvellous.

Mystery solved!! Been to get wage slip its a tax refund. But I pointed out nicely that they owe me money for hols and manager said she will get it authorised by director for my ful entitlement good job shes my friend lol and she knows what im like cos i said it would be discrimination against me as a woman 9although she said other people never bothered asking before

they apparantly forgot?? to request hol payment from payroll for me roll on 28 march! sorry if typos have a helper on my knee

good news!

All very interesting though isn't it? Of course the other principle of the law is that a woman shouldn't suffer a detriment as a result of being on mat leave.

I think soremummy you would have won had she ended up in a tribunal, but how marvellous that you haven't had to fight.

we will see what happens. will be on here checking bank first thing on the 28 march lol and let you know if i get what im due. just trying to work out how many days etc im owed

Flowery....sorry for the delay. My laptop is running soooo slowly today and it is driving me crazy. A really useful website

www.eoc-law.org.uk

Excellent section on maternity rights, pay etc, working time regulations.....complete with cases......happy reading!!!

this will prob be posted twice as I am running out of patience with this laptop and am hammering on the keys as we speak

Flowery....sorry for the delay. My laptop is running soooo slowly today and it is driving me crazy. A really useful website

www.eoc-law.org.uk

Excellent section on maternity rights, pay etc, working time regulations.....complete with cases......happy reading!!!

this will prob be posted twice as I am running out of patience with this laptop and am hammering on the keys as we speak

yep posted twice K

v familiar with that site! Found Gomez and whatever the other one was on there, but only thing I could find about this was the 'inevitable' comment, and didn't know whether there was anything in the pipeline since that stuff was written. Seems not, but I'm sure there will be soon, even if soremummy is not going to be a famous test case!

feel like i have opened a right can of worms up

Flowery....sorry for the delay. My laptop is running soooo slowly today and it is driving me crazy. A really useful website

www.eoc-law.org.uk

Excellent section on maternity rights, pay etc, working time regulations.....complete with cases......happy reading!!!

this will prob be posted twice as I am running out of patience with this laptop and am hammering on the keys as we speak

soremummy cans of worms no problem, good learning for all us boring HR/legally types!

Karen go and sort your laptop out!

thought you might be familiar with that site!! Am I teaching my granny to suck eggs here??

Its soooo frustrating....I am going bananas here.....bloody computers...

Hi FAQ!!!

Will keep looking Flowery and see if I can see any other cases....surely there must be one???

thought you might be familiar with that site!! Am I teaching my granny to suck eggs here??

Its soooo frustrating....I am going bananas here.....bloody computers...

Hi FAQ!!!

Will keep looking Flowery and see if I can see any other cases....surely there must be one???

thought you might be familiar with that site!! Am I teaching my granny to suck eggs here??

Its soooo frustrating....I am going bananas here.....bloody computers...

Hi FAQ!!!

Will keep looking Flowery and see if I can see any other cases....surely there must be one???

Right, here's my tuppence worth.

An employee who is on maternity leave accrues holiday in the normal way. However, IMO it is also lawful to subject you to the normal holiday leave rules. This means that, if you cannot carry holiday over from one year to another, you need to take it at the start of the maternity leave period if your leave will go over a year end. I do not think that there is a separate right to carry over holiday just because you have been on leave. I also don't think that it is discrimination to subject an employee to the same holiday rules as everyone else.

There is also the complicating question that the employer is not allowed to let you carry over the holiday under the working time regulations during employment. Even though the OP's employment has now ended, at the time of the carry over she would have been an employee and subject to these rules.

SO I think it is actually fair enough to say that untaken holiday is lost as a matter of law. It would be your responsibility as an employee to make sure that, if your maternity leave planned to go over a holiday year end, you took the leave before you went.

I think it is different if you are prevented from taking holiday. Then, everything Flowery has said about preventing people from taking leave would apply. I won't repeat it all cos I agree .

Having said all of that, most employers would either:

(a) make sure that you knew the rule so that you made sure you took your leave; or

(b) let you be paid out/carry the holiday over (yes, breach of the working time regs, but if you both agree to break a law and it benefits the employee to do so, who is going to to sue?).

There are also some glitches now that maternity and holiday leave are both longer. For example, an employee who went on leave on the 1st of Jan and came back on the 1st of Jan the following year wouldn't actually have had any days in the holiday year to take her leave!

I won't pretend that this is a definitive answer. There are lots of interpretations, but it's how I would reason it personally...

You cannot carry over holiday if you're on mat leave. Its a take it or lose it situation. On mat leave myself at the moment so no access to any books but RibenaBerry is right. Had to look it up for a client once.

Most employers warn you about this though and advise you to take it before you go on mat leave.

This is a really interesting thread, a subject I'm battling with a bit at the moment but I have an employment lawyer on the case should it get sticky. Just wondered what the many clever ladies on here thought of this situation:

FY06 - I was on maternity leave/sick leave throughout and accrued 18 days holiday which my company told me they would allow me to carry forward.

FY07 - I was on sick leave/maternity leave throughout and accrued 28 days holiday and was told verbally by HR I could carry them forward as I had had no opportunity to use any of the holiday.

FY08 - I was on sick leave and have accrued abou 18 days holiday.

I am now being made redundant (funny that), and think should be paid for all of the days as they are terminating my contract and I have had no opportunity to use any of the days.

For another question, how do i work out how much pay I will get per day owed? Is there a magic calculation?!

xx

spudbaloo usual calculation for a day's pay is your annual salary divided by 260, assuming you work 5 days a week, some do it differently but that's a common way.

If you've had no opportunity to use any of that holiday and have been advised it can all be carried forward you may get it all. But if I were your employer and I allowed you to carry it all forward I would only allow it to carry forward into the next holiday year and I would specify a date by when it must be taken, so it may be that you only get some of it.

Flowery...... was waiting for today to see if my holiday pay has been put into bank and it hasnt. My manager saw me yesterday and told me my holiday pay had been requested (she sorts out bonus figures etc) but my director is away im now because I do feel that they might try squirm out of paying me. Will update when I know whats happening

I have a cheque coming to me next week!!!!!!!! More than I thought it would be . /there is hope for others

spudballoo. This one isn't straightforward. It will depend on whether your entitlement to holiday is statutory or contractual and what your contract says with regard to accrual whilst on sick leave.
It is also heavily dependent on what your employer promised you with regard to holiday entitlement since if they have promised that you can carry it over indefinitely then they may be obliged to honour this.

I had a case once where an employee popped up out of the woodwork after 8 years off sick and said he was coming back to work the following week. (The company had forgotten all about him). They dismissed him and he claimed for holiday pay. He was successful in part.

The case law was considered again about a year and a half ago and so your employment lawyer should be able to get some guidance. It won't be straight forward however since the mat leave periods will be treated differently to the sick leave periods.