Any band 7 NHS staff on here?

[TeaCakeandKisses]

If so, can I ask a few questions?

(1) What level are you classed as in the NHS ? Middle or senior management?
(2) Do you do things like staff absence review meetings with HR especially once they get up to stage 3 and beyond?
(3) How many staff should a band 7 line manage?

I ask because these, plus lots of other senior management roles, I am asked
to do (in my current role) in a place that is really struggling with a poor manager (8c). We are classed as senior managers and referred to as senior managers to all the staff. We are, of course, doing senior management roles and making senior management decisions which I’m not comfortable with. I think I’ve got the lion’s share as I have the majority of the staff to line manage. I’ve only been there 2 years and I’m horrified by lots of things in the place. I have 25 years in another profession (also NHS) and didn’t experience this level of work in a previous band 7 role.

Other band 7’s are promoted within and none have worked anywhere else so have no experience of what they job should be. None are qualified (education) for the roles they’re in which shows.

I’m trying to get out but it’s tricky as I can only stay in my region.

I just wondered if there were any band 7’s out there who could give me a quick run down of their responsibilities.

Thanks.

Absence reviews - I mean from stage 2

DH is NHS band 7. I dont know what he’s classed but he’s the first level of management, a team leader, and has two levels above him locally. He has about 10 in his team and does appraisals, sickness back-to-works, general performance tracking and management and day to day troubleshooting.

Hi, I am a(very new)nhs b7 team lead. I consider myself middle management, I manage all operational aspects including sickness reviews,recruitment,complaints, datix, training, absence and performance. I lead a small but busy service, only 13 of us in the team including myself. I am very much involved in clinical work too but don't have my own caseload as it would be impossible to cope with. I also focus on service development creating relationships with other teams/agencies and expanding the service. Lots of very timing consuming meetings too

Are you clinical or corporate?

Im corporate and I find the responsibilities of Band 7 vary massively. I know a B7 who manages a team of 12 with 5 of them direct repots, who is middle management , and I know a B7 who has a team of 6, with one direct report who is a senior manager.

All B7 should be doing absence reviews for staff as far as I’m aware, unless the staff member who is being reviewed has asked for someone else to do it.

The NHS in general doesn’t pay well for the amount of work, so you often get people in senior posts who don’t quite have the right experience or education. Sometimes they learn on the job well, sometimes they just end up mediocre, and it’s hard to tell which they will be from a 30 min interview.

Middle management, clinical band 7. My (boss) matron is very part time so I do a lot that other band 7’s would have more support with as well as line manage 20 staff, has been more and probably will be again when we finally recruit.

What you have described sounds standard to me.

I don’t want to give too much away but we are not on the wards but are under one of the big directorates. Our band 8 is very good at delegating.I am still in touch with band 7’s and 8’s from my old trust (different profession) and they can’t believe I’m doing what I’m doing.

I applied for two band 8 roles recently and was shortlisted for both but decided not to proceed due to distance. I matched the job spec and requirements.

I think the 7’s were I am now should be 8a’s. Based on previous work places. The band 8a at my old trust is doing exactly the same roles as I am but I’m a 7.

Funnily enough, our trust pay a band 2 salary for a particular role that is paid band 4 and another trust!!

There seems to be a difference out there.

I don’t like being referred to as a senior manager though. I’m not. I’ve seen band 7 roles advertised saying middle management for band 7’s. I get the feeling that the other 7’s were called senior management to make them feel like they had a fancy job title etc. but they’re actually not getting paid for it.

Band 8’s and above are senior management. Band 7’s are
middle management.

Have you compared your job description to 8a?

Are you in a union?
If you think your doing 8a tasks then take your job description to union along with 8a one and ask them to help you apply for regrading. Then if regrading gets turned down it will be because your job role doesn't cover certain tasks, so you simply don't do them.
I know someone who did just that!

I’m no longer in a union but was for years. Think I might re-join though.

Not a 7 but a 6 here but happy to share how our team works.

1 full time or 2 part time team leaders to about 20-25 staff with a mix of roles and bands.

They are always be referred to as team leaders and our band 8 as our manager. I've never heard them referred to as senior managers. Perhaps middle managers at a push but they are still clinical staff as such although rarely carry much of their own caseload.

Sickness reviews once they have reached HR involvement would be handled by a band 8. Recruitment also, although B7s would shortlist and interview. A lot of things they don't do because they aren't the budget holders. Signing off ordering stationary, job adverts etc would never be their remit.

I would look at your job description and that of an 8a and compare and look at rebanding. The problem is getting anyone to recognise it. So you might just have to start not doing things instead, which could get tricky.

I do the sickness reviews with HR. I also do the appointing for new posts and all interview preparations (including preparing the questions). I have been told that it should be an 8 once HR are involved in absence reviews. One is becoming very difficult (union also involved) and I feel it’s the 8 that should be handling it.

Btw - the 8 wrote his own JD.

I'm a band 7 and would say I am middle management. I over see complex patients, manage a team of 12/13 ish staff, but oversee other teams, so generally can manage up to around 35 staff at times. We do interviews, datix investigations, organise training, off duty, deal with complaints, help implement changes allocate, safeguarding, etc, as well as clinical visits for complex patients support and manage staff, which seems to be a massive part of the Job, as well as sick reviews, padr, etc.

Hi Op, the band 7s that report to me do all you listed yes. Our trust sickness policy just states “manager” so this could be whomever at whatever grade. However if any of my staff were struggling with managing a difficult process I would certainly be involved/helping or at very least wanting regular updates and they would have the hr business partner involved.

I as an 8B am referred to as Senior Management, but I’d never refer to 7s as middle or junior etc as it just sounds derogatory. I think “senior” is 8a and above, or those who are part of the on call team (if not clinical). Trusts vary based on size and type of organisation though. I’m in a small DGH.

I’m a band 7 due to my clinical work, I do the rotas, return to works & appraisals for the hca’s. The manager is 8C, but they do very little and delegate most things to the band 4 admin assistant. Previously I did much more management but the B8c manager has been passed this to the admin assistant who should be paid more than a band 4 for the level of things they are doing.

the nhs seem to be creating business support manager positions (who have no nhs type degree - if any degree at all) at a lower banding which leaves less office time for the band 7 and provides more them with clinical time instead. However this means working decisions are being made for band 7 staff by band 4 staff with no clinical experience/ qualifications.

Thanks all. Something to think about. Ironically, my old workplace emailed me a job advert today - maybe it’s a sign!!

I was a grade 6 biomedical scientist, my good friend is a grade 7, I would class as middle management.

Would be responsible for analyser problems, Ordering reagents, making rotas, back to work after sickness. Writing SOPs etc any bigger decisions would be made by our lab manager (grade 8).

Sounds like your department wants alot of flesh for the money/ grade !

Maybe that email for old work place was a sign indeed !

Yes, they do seem to want a lot for the money!

I am job hunting!